I was wondering if it would be deemed better to perform the same stretch 3-5 times or 3-5 different stretches that largely target the same area. For example, rather than assume a Chinese box splits position with the hands on the floor for support several times, could you perform that stretch once but next say lie on your back and let your legs spread out, and then do a similar assisted stretch standing up?
I recall reading that stretching can be position specific, so if you are stretching for kicking, you should assume a stretch similar to a kick etc.
I have a set routine of stretches at the moment that I am plateauing with (though I have achieved good results so far). With these, I hold each stretch between 10-20 seconds and repeat each three times or so. If I do more than this, I tend to overstretch. There are so many position variations of stretching that I would like to try to incorporate but to do so, I would have to reduce either the current number of repeats I do for each stretch or different stretches altogether.
I would really appreciate any advice on this.
Many thanks,
Logan
Repeatin same stretch or variations
Stretching plateau
Logan,
Try stretching twice a day every day, for shorter duration, doing a different variation of stretching exercise for each muscle group in each session, making sure to always do a warmup before stretching. The static stretching portion of the workout might take no more than 15 minutes.
Static stretches cold are kind of useless, unless you don't mind staying on that plateau. I would rather throw a high kick cold than attempt the same stretch static at this point, due to the way the muscles work (Tom Kurz can explain it).
Always include aerobic exercise and dynamic stretching (for example, Kurz' leg raises to the front, back and sides) in your warm up, preceding dynamic stretches with loosening up of the joints. Your aerobic conditioning can be anything to get the blood pumping and start working up a sweat. Jump rope is great as is running in place doing arm circles/dynamic arm stretches. My personal warmup is no more than 10-15 minutes.
A great time to stretch is right after a technical workout. Don't leave the dojang without a short stretching routine while you are still warm.
Save those practice kicks as a technical workout to do after you are warmed up, but before your static stretching routine. Further, never do your "max" or "extreme" static stretching minutes before a technical workout; save that for after. Kurz knows why (read his book, Stretching Scientifically).
Twice a day, every day, and you will progress. Variety of exercises and always warm up before you static stretch.
I believe Kurz' book, Stretching Scientifically, will back me up on this as the most effective way to progress.
P.S. Three notes:
(1) There should be one stretch per muscle group per workout. For best effect, find movements that touch different parts of a muscle group--all four of the quads or all three of the hamstrings, for example. Just one quad movement may be too "position specific" to cover every facet of that muscle mass (e.g. holding foot behind you); same goes for adductors, the strengthening and stretching of which are essential to improving side splits.
(2) Part with the idea of doing repetitions of a static exercise. Often, what you seek to achieve in a static stretch would better be described as "progressives" where you move further and further into a stretch, holding for a few seconds at each point deeper into the stretch, until you have spent maybe a minute and a half max in the stretch.
When you do static stretches, move to the point where you feel tension in the muscle, then back off slightly, hold it until the effected muscle relaxes, then stretch further until you feel tension again, back off slightly, and so on, progressing into the stretch. Do this and you will make progress.
Stretching exercises for which a number of "repetitions" are required generally involve a dynamic component. (I'm sure Kurz would tell you I oversimplify.)
(3) Effective stretching requires strength. It may sound contradictory, but the stronger you are, the further you will be able to stretch, persons with loose ligaments excepted. Commit to slow but sure progress, building strength and flexibility hand in hand, slowly, over time.
Muscles in which you are building strength naturally tighten up, so if you change anything about your strength conditioning, be careful when returning to your usual stretches so as not to overdo it. I did this once when I took up bicycling. My calves tighted up in the first week, but I tried to stretch just as far and developed cramping. Fortunately, I was relatively resilient--I backed off on stretching a little and was good as new, only stronger, within days. Live and learn. Setbacks happen.
You can sometimes stretch sore muscles as they heal using the "progressives" method. Just be **very** sensitive to how much stretch is enough and know when to back off. (Naturally, check with a professional to find out if there isn't something more wrong than you know about, so you don't cause further damage. In some cases, all you can do is nothing until your muscles are ready for action.)
This is getting a little long winded. Tried to sum up a bunch of stuff I have read recently. Read Kurz if you haven't. If '...Scientifically' is a bit heavy, let me know, I can pass on to you a couple other titles, though I like Kurz for best background of how and why things work, especially on structuring effective workouts.
How's that for plugging Tom's work here on his website, and he didn't even pay me for that.
) How about it Mr. Kurz, could you put my name in the hat for a DVD or something?? You should if you know how much of your stuff I own!
Good luck, Logan. Since you wrote in July, I hope you have made considerable progress. Setbacks happen; plateaus happen. That's part of life. Just never, never quit.
Cindy
Try stretching twice a day every day, for shorter duration, doing a different variation of stretching exercise for each muscle group in each session, making sure to always do a warmup before stretching. The static stretching portion of the workout might take no more than 15 minutes.
Static stretches cold are kind of useless, unless you don't mind staying on that plateau. I would rather throw a high kick cold than attempt the same stretch static at this point, due to the way the muscles work (Tom Kurz can explain it).
Always include aerobic exercise and dynamic stretching (for example, Kurz' leg raises to the front, back and sides) in your warm up, preceding dynamic stretches with loosening up of the joints. Your aerobic conditioning can be anything to get the blood pumping and start working up a sweat. Jump rope is great as is running in place doing arm circles/dynamic arm stretches. My personal warmup is no more than 10-15 minutes.
A great time to stretch is right after a technical workout. Don't leave the dojang without a short stretching routine while you are still warm.
Save those practice kicks as a technical workout to do after you are warmed up, but before your static stretching routine. Further, never do your "max" or "extreme" static stretching minutes before a technical workout; save that for after. Kurz knows why (read his book, Stretching Scientifically).
Twice a day, every day, and you will progress. Variety of exercises and always warm up before you static stretch.
I believe Kurz' book, Stretching Scientifically, will back me up on this as the most effective way to progress.
P.S. Three notes:
(1) There should be one stretch per muscle group per workout. For best effect, find movements that touch different parts of a muscle group--all four of the quads or all three of the hamstrings, for example. Just one quad movement may be too "position specific" to cover every facet of that muscle mass (e.g. holding foot behind you); same goes for adductors, the strengthening and stretching of which are essential to improving side splits.
(2) Part with the idea of doing repetitions of a static exercise. Often, what you seek to achieve in a static stretch would better be described as "progressives" where you move further and further into a stretch, holding for a few seconds at each point deeper into the stretch, until you have spent maybe a minute and a half max in the stretch.
When you do static stretches, move to the point where you feel tension in the muscle, then back off slightly, hold it until the effected muscle relaxes, then stretch further until you feel tension again, back off slightly, and so on, progressing into the stretch. Do this and you will make progress.
Stretching exercises for which a number of "repetitions" are required generally involve a dynamic component. (I'm sure Kurz would tell you I oversimplify.)
(3) Effective stretching requires strength. It may sound contradictory, but the stronger you are, the further you will be able to stretch, persons with loose ligaments excepted. Commit to slow but sure progress, building strength and flexibility hand in hand, slowly, over time.
Muscles in which you are building strength naturally tighten up, so if you change anything about your strength conditioning, be careful when returning to your usual stretches so as not to overdo it. I did this once when I took up bicycling. My calves tighted up in the first week, but I tried to stretch just as far and developed cramping. Fortunately, I was relatively resilient--I backed off on stretching a little and was good as new, only stronger, within days. Live and learn. Setbacks happen.
You can sometimes stretch sore muscles as they heal using the "progressives" method. Just be **very** sensitive to how much stretch is enough and know when to back off. (Naturally, check with a professional to find out if there isn't something more wrong than you know about, so you don't cause further damage. In some cases, all you can do is nothing until your muscles are ready for action.)
This is getting a little long winded. Tried to sum up a bunch of stuff I have read recently. Read Kurz if you haven't. If '...Scientifically' is a bit heavy, let me know, I can pass on to you a couple other titles, though I like Kurz for best background of how and why things work, especially on structuring effective workouts.
How's that for plugging Tom's work here on his website, and he didn't even pay me for that.
) How about it Mr. Kurz, could you put my name in the hat for a DVD or something?? You should if you know how much of your stuff I own!Good luck, Logan. Since you wrote in July, I hope you have made considerable progress. Setbacks happen; plateaus happen. That's part of life. Just never, never quit.
Cindy
Thanks for the reply. At the moment I do dynamic stretching after a quick warm-up followed by kicking exercises followed by static stretching. I am seeing good results with stretching twice a day at the moment but it is too soon to tell if it will plateau. I incorporate several static stretches but find I use these as almost warm-up stretches for the more extreme range of motion stretches. So now, I only hold them for 5-10 seconds to loosen out but something like the splits hold for a minute or so.
when to stretch
Tim...
Would that be your yoga experience speaking?
I have often wondered how I was supposed to stay warm in a lengthy stretching session.
I appreciate your comment also because that meant today I got a 'topic reply' email and upon reviewing this thread realized I needed to retract something I said back in August:
Kurz says many times in his book, Stretching Scientifically, that post-workout is an ideal time for isometric and/or static stretching. The caveat, had I seen it, he also states, on p. 12:
Cindy
Would that be your yoga experience speaking?
I have often wondered how I was supposed to stay warm in a lengthy stretching session.I appreciate your comment also because that meant today I got a 'topic reply' email and upon reviewing this thread realized I needed to retract something I said back in August:
That worked for me for a long time. Then one day I followed an extra-strenuous workout (feeling well tired, but no particular pain) with strenuous static stretching and wound up with torn muscles.A great time to stretch is right after a technical workout. Don't leave the dojang without a short stretching routine while you are still warm.
Kurz says many times in his book, Stretching Scientifically, that post-workout is an ideal time for isometric and/or static stretching. The caveat, had I seen it, he also states, on p. 12:
Tae kwon do can be a workout and a half."In the case of exercises that do considerable damage to the muscles, such as very hard resistance exercises, do stretches several hours later. Stretching during the acute phase of muscle damage would compound the damage. Even static stretching can put enough stress on the muscle fibers to damage them..." Thomas Kurz
Cindy
Cindy: Yeah, the Yoga thing does influence me a lot, but not so much that I can't see the value in other systems.
I mostly works splits in cycles doing left-front, right-front and side splits in one cycle, so I never really stop and rest. If I stop for too long I feel like I need to warm up again.
As far as after workout stretching, I guess as you say, if the intensity is really high it can be bad to stretch. I stretch all the way through working legs at the gym. The intensity is enough to make my legs like rubber, but no so much that my whole body is dead. As a result, I don't get that feeling of being completely physically exhausted, which will usually results in muscular tightness.
Cheers
Tim...
I mostly works splits in cycles doing left-front, right-front and side splits in one cycle, so I never really stop and rest. If I stop for too long I feel like I need to warm up again.
As far as after workout stretching, I guess as you say, if the intensity is really high it can be bad to stretch. I stretch all the way through working legs at the gym. The intensity is enough to make my legs like rubber, but no so much that my whole body is dead. As a result, I don't get that feeling of being completely physically exhausted, which will usually results in muscular tightness.
Cheers
Tim...