I purchased Stretching Scientifically recently, but I am new to this type of training and I have several questions that I've posted throughout this forum.
First off, after my first isometric attempt I found out I'm not strong enough to even hold a proper horse stance, my back muscles are too weak to hold myself upright. I brought this up to a friend of mine who is a trainer and is familiar with the Russian/Eastern European training concepts, and he recommended that I a)start doing kettlebell workouts 2-3 times a week and b) do a manageable amount of body weight squats and lunges everyday, not to fatigue but just to get used to the form and keep doing that until I can easily do 3 sets of 12 with perfect form and not get tired, and then I'd be strong enough to attempt a horse stance. And he recommended that I just stay away from the isometric stretches for a while and just continue to do dynamic stretches (everyday) and static passive stretches (after workouts) until I'm strong enough to maintain the isometric positions. Does this sound about right to anyone?
New to this, need help with routine
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Patrick Smith
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Jan 20, 2010 13:05
- Location: Mississippi, USA
Re: New to this, need help with routine
Yes, your friend is correct. You are definitely not ready for isometric stretches yet. Don't worry, though, once you develop the strength for the splits, the splits aren't far off.
In my opinion, and from what I believe the DVD "Secrets of Stretching" teaches, you should be doing primarily a core workout for the next 2-3 weeks. Then you should begin to incorporate lunges, leg curls, upper body work (push ups, pull ups, dumbbell or barbell rows, etc.) for another 2-3 weeks, and lastly incorporate adductor flies as a specific movement. If your abs and back are weak, you should not be performing high intensity exercises for the arms and legs. That is why you must build up from your core (abs and back) and outwards to you limbs.
Here's a routine that should be somewhat similar to the one you should follow, although if would be helpful to know more about what you are capable of.
Week 1-2
Mon-Wed-Fri
*Sit ups - 3 sets of 25 reps (if 25 is too easy or too hard, increase or decrease it by 5 in the next workout. If it is still to easy or too hard, decrease it or increase it by another 5, and so on.
*Good mornings - 3 sets of 10 reps with 15-20 lbs (if 3 sets of 10 reps is too hard or too easy, lower or increase the weight by 5 lbs at the next workout. If it is still too hard or too easy, add another 5 lbs at the next workout. Do not add reps or weight in the workout you are currently performing. If you find your workout too easy or too hard, increase the intensity of the NEXT workout.)
REST 1-2 MINUTES BETWEEN EACH SET
Week 2-4
Mon-Wed-Fri
*Push ups - 3 sets of 10 reps ((Push ups will stress your core considerably since your core is not yet very strong. In order to do your core exercises (which are very important at this stage) well, you must not tire your core too much with push ups before your main core exercises. In short, do not over do it with the push ups. If 10 push ups is too hard or too easy, add or subtract 2-3 in the next workout and continue doing so until you find what works for you))
*Supported dumbbell rows - 3 sets of 15 reps (again, use a weight that allows you to do all 15 reps. Once that becomes to easy, add 2.5 lbs for the next workout)
*Forward lunges - 3 sets of 10 per leg (e.g. step forward into the lunge, then step back into your regular standing position, then lunge forward again and so on. If 10 reps is too hard or too easy for you, add 2-3 reps per set in the next workout and continue until you can do 3 sets of 15 reps per leg)
*Hamstring curls - 3 sets of 15 reps (use a weight light enough that it allows you to perform all 3 sets of 15 reps. Once it becomes to easy, add 1 lb of weight for the next workout
*Sit ups - 3 sets of 25 reps (if 25 is too easy or too hard, increase or decrease it by 5 in the next workout. If it is still to easy or too hard, decrease it or increase it by another 5, and so on.
*Good mornings - 3 sets of 10 reps with 15-20 lbs (if 3 sets of 10 reps is too hard or too easy, lower or increase the weight by 5 lbs at the next workout. If it is still too hard or too easy, add another 5 lbs at the next workout. Do not add reps or weight in the workout you are currently performing. If you find your workout too easy or too hard, increase the intensity of the NEXT workout.)
REST 1-2 MINUTES BETWEEN EACH SET
Week 4-6
Mon-Wed-Fri
*Push ups - 3 sets of 10 reps ((Push ups will stress your core considerably since your core is not yet very strong. In order to do your core exercises (which are very important at this stage) well, you must not tire your core too much with push ups before your main core exercises. In short, do not over do it with the push ups. If 10 push ups is too hard or too easy, add or subtract 2-3 in the next workout and continue doing so until you find what works for you))
*Supported dumbbell rows - 3 sets of 15 reps (again, use a weight that allows you to do all 15 reps. Once that becomes to easy, add 2.5 lbs for the next workout)
Adductor flies - 3 sets of 1-100 reps (no weight. Once you can perform 100 reps for each of the 3 sets in one workout add .5 lb of weight and try to work back towards 100 reps.
*Forward lunges or backward lunges- 3 sets of 10 per leg (e.g. step forward into the lunge, then step back into your regular standing position, then lunge forward again and so on. If 10 reps is too hard or too easy for you, add 2-3 reps per set in the next workout and continue until you can do 3 sets of 15 reps per leg)
*Hindu squats - 3 sets of 10 reps (if 10 reps is too easy or too hard, add or subtract 2-5 reps in the next workout.
*Sit ups - 3 sets of 25 reps (if 25 is too easy or too hard, increase or decrease it by 5 in the next workout. If it is still to easy or too hard, decrease it or increase it by another 5, and so on.
*Good mornings - 3 sets of 10 reps with 15-20 lbs (if 3 sets of 10 reps is too hard or too easy, lower or increase the weight by 5 lbs at the next workout. If it is still too hard or too easy, add another 5 lbs at the next workout. Do not add reps or weight in the workout you are currently performing. If you find your workout too easy or too hard, increase the intensity of the NEXT workout.)
REST 1-2 MINUTES BETWEEN EACH SET
This is something similar to what you need to be doing. It's not perfect, though, so you will probably need to evaluate it and modify it to suit your own needs.
Good luck and I hope this helped!
Patrick Smith
In my opinion, and from what I believe the DVD "Secrets of Stretching" teaches, you should be doing primarily a core workout for the next 2-3 weeks. Then you should begin to incorporate lunges, leg curls, upper body work (push ups, pull ups, dumbbell or barbell rows, etc.) for another 2-3 weeks, and lastly incorporate adductor flies as a specific movement. If your abs and back are weak, you should not be performing high intensity exercises for the arms and legs. That is why you must build up from your core (abs and back) and outwards to you limbs.
Here's a routine that should be somewhat similar to the one you should follow, although if would be helpful to know more about what you are capable of.
Week 1-2
Mon-Wed-Fri
*Sit ups - 3 sets of 25 reps (if 25 is too easy or too hard, increase or decrease it by 5 in the next workout. If it is still to easy or too hard, decrease it or increase it by another 5, and so on.
*Good mornings - 3 sets of 10 reps with 15-20 lbs (if 3 sets of 10 reps is too hard or too easy, lower or increase the weight by 5 lbs at the next workout. If it is still too hard or too easy, add another 5 lbs at the next workout. Do not add reps or weight in the workout you are currently performing. If you find your workout too easy or too hard, increase the intensity of the NEXT workout.)
REST 1-2 MINUTES BETWEEN EACH SET
Week 2-4
Mon-Wed-Fri
*Push ups - 3 sets of 10 reps ((Push ups will stress your core considerably since your core is not yet very strong. In order to do your core exercises (which are very important at this stage) well, you must not tire your core too much with push ups before your main core exercises. In short, do not over do it with the push ups. If 10 push ups is too hard or too easy, add or subtract 2-3 in the next workout and continue doing so until you find what works for you))
*Supported dumbbell rows - 3 sets of 15 reps (again, use a weight that allows you to do all 15 reps. Once that becomes to easy, add 2.5 lbs for the next workout)
*Forward lunges - 3 sets of 10 per leg (e.g. step forward into the lunge, then step back into your regular standing position, then lunge forward again and so on. If 10 reps is too hard or too easy for you, add 2-3 reps per set in the next workout and continue until you can do 3 sets of 15 reps per leg)
*Hamstring curls - 3 sets of 15 reps (use a weight light enough that it allows you to perform all 3 sets of 15 reps. Once it becomes to easy, add 1 lb of weight for the next workout
*Sit ups - 3 sets of 25 reps (if 25 is too easy or too hard, increase or decrease it by 5 in the next workout. If it is still to easy or too hard, decrease it or increase it by another 5, and so on.
*Good mornings - 3 sets of 10 reps with 15-20 lbs (if 3 sets of 10 reps is too hard or too easy, lower or increase the weight by 5 lbs at the next workout. If it is still too hard or too easy, add another 5 lbs at the next workout. Do not add reps or weight in the workout you are currently performing. If you find your workout too easy or too hard, increase the intensity of the NEXT workout.)
REST 1-2 MINUTES BETWEEN EACH SET
Week 4-6
Mon-Wed-Fri
*Push ups - 3 sets of 10 reps ((Push ups will stress your core considerably since your core is not yet very strong. In order to do your core exercises (which are very important at this stage) well, you must not tire your core too much with push ups before your main core exercises. In short, do not over do it with the push ups. If 10 push ups is too hard or too easy, add or subtract 2-3 in the next workout and continue doing so until you find what works for you))
*Supported dumbbell rows - 3 sets of 15 reps (again, use a weight that allows you to do all 15 reps. Once that becomes to easy, add 2.5 lbs for the next workout)
Adductor flies - 3 sets of 1-100 reps (no weight. Once you can perform 100 reps for each of the 3 sets in one workout add .5 lb of weight and try to work back towards 100 reps.
*Forward lunges or backward lunges- 3 sets of 10 per leg (e.g. step forward into the lunge, then step back into your regular standing position, then lunge forward again and so on. If 10 reps is too hard or too easy for you, add 2-3 reps per set in the next workout and continue until you can do 3 sets of 15 reps per leg)
*Hindu squats - 3 sets of 10 reps (if 10 reps is too easy or too hard, add or subtract 2-5 reps in the next workout.
*Sit ups - 3 sets of 25 reps (if 25 is too easy or too hard, increase or decrease it by 5 in the next workout. If it is still to easy or too hard, decrease it or increase it by another 5, and so on.
*Good mornings - 3 sets of 10 reps with 15-20 lbs (if 3 sets of 10 reps is too hard or too easy, lower or increase the weight by 5 lbs at the next workout. If it is still too hard or too easy, add another 5 lbs at the next workout. Do not add reps or weight in the workout you are currently performing. If you find your workout too easy or too hard, increase the intensity of the NEXT workout.)
REST 1-2 MINUTES BETWEEN EACH SET
This is something similar to what you need to be doing. It's not perfect, though, so you will probably need to evaluate it and modify it to suit your own needs.
Good luck and I hope this helped!
Patrick Smith
The Few. The Proud. The Marines.
Semper Fidelis; Always Faithful
Semper Fidelis; Always Faithful
Re: New to this, need help with routine
Thanks for the reply. I agree that it would be helpful for you to know what I'm capable of, as the routine you descibed above sounds pretty solid but I think I'm a bit more advanced than that.
First off, I'm actually in pretty good shape, I just have weak core muscles - that's pretty much it. I can do push-ups and pull-ups until I drop, I have 6 pack abs, and can leg press more than twice my body weight. All my large, movement-based muscle groups are pretty strong and well-toned, I just never put that much emphasis on my stabilizer muscles, so that's why when I try to go into a proper horsestance my lower back just gives out.
Also, due to financial constrictions I don't have access to all the equipment you described. I lost some $ in the recession and had to cut back on expenses, like my gym membership. It's due to these two reason that my friend recommended the kettlebell workout, because a) according to him it will give me a great core workout while still being enough of a challenge enough to affect my already developed large muscle groups, and b) it's very cost-effective, seeing as how he was able to just give me a set.
But I do appreciate the advice, and hopefully this information will help you make a more accurate assessment as to whether or not I'm heading in the right direction as far as training goes - he told me to stick with the kettlebell routine (which does include plenty of good-mornings, by the way) for about a month and by then I should be strong enough to start doing isometrics. But I think I'm already starting to make some gains with the dynamic stretching, which is encouraging - although my hamstrings are still pretty tight and I'm wondering if I should just skip the front leg kicks until I have enough back strength to do them without getting sore afterwards.
First off, I'm actually in pretty good shape, I just have weak core muscles - that's pretty much it. I can do push-ups and pull-ups until I drop, I have 6 pack abs, and can leg press more than twice my body weight. All my large, movement-based muscle groups are pretty strong and well-toned, I just never put that much emphasis on my stabilizer muscles, so that's why when I try to go into a proper horsestance my lower back just gives out.
Also, due to financial constrictions I don't have access to all the equipment you described. I lost some $ in the recession and had to cut back on expenses, like my gym membership. It's due to these two reason that my friend recommended the kettlebell workout, because a) according to him it will give me a great core workout while still being enough of a challenge enough to affect my already developed large muscle groups, and b) it's very cost-effective, seeing as how he was able to just give me a set.
But I do appreciate the advice, and hopefully this information will help you make a more accurate assessment as to whether or not I'm heading in the right direction as far as training goes - he told me to stick with the kettlebell routine (which does include plenty of good-mornings, by the way) for about a month and by then I should be strong enough to start doing isometrics. But I think I'm already starting to make some gains with the dynamic stretching, which is encouraging - although my hamstrings are still pretty tight and I'm wondering if I should just skip the front leg kicks until I have enough back strength to do them without getting sore afterwards.
-
Patrick Smith
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Jan 20, 2010 13:05
- Location: Mississippi, USA
Re: New to this, need help with routine
Okay, that's good to know. In that case, I think you're heading in the right direction.rgm82 wrote:Thanks for the reply. I agree that it would be helpful for you to know what I'm capable of, as the routine you descibed above sounds pretty solid but I think I'm a bit more advanced than that.
First off, I'm actually in pretty good shape, I just have weak core muscles - that's pretty much it. I can do push-ups and pull-ups until I drop, I have 6 pack abs, and can leg press more than twice my body weight. All my large, movement-based muscle groups are pretty strong and well-toned, I just never put that much emphasis on my stabilizer muscles, so that's why when I try to go into a proper horsestance my lower back just gives out.
Also, due to financial constrictions I don't have access to all the equipment you described. I lost some $ in the recession and had to cut back on expenses, like my gym membership. It's due to these two reason that my friend recommended the kettlebell workout, because a) according to him it will give me a great core workout while still being enough of a challenge enough to affect my already developed large muscle groups, and b) it's very cost-effective, seeing as how he was able to just give me a set.
But I do appreciate the advice, and hopefully this information will help you make a more accurate assessment as to whether or not I'm heading in the right direction as far as training goes - he told me to stick with the kettlebell routine (which does include plenty of good-mornings, by the way) for about a month and by then I should be strong enough to start doing isometrics. But I think I'm already starting to make some gains with the dynamic stretching, which is encouraging - although my hamstrings are still pretty tight and I'm wondering if I should just skip the front leg kicks until I have enough back strength to do them without getting sore afterwards.
The Few. The Proud. The Marines.
Semper Fidelis; Always Faithful
Semper Fidelis; Always Faithful
Re: New to this, need help with routine
This is fine, as long as you do not experience too much soreness in tight muscles. If my hamstrings were sore, I would back off on both (1) dynamic hamstring stretches (back and front leg raises as described in Stretching Scientifically) and (2) moves that involve simultaneous stretch and strengthen of the sore hamstrings (e.g. good mornings).rgm82 wrote:...my back muscles are too weak [for isometrics in horse stance] ...he recommended that I a)start doing kettlebell workouts 2-3 times a week and b) do a manageable amount of body weight squats and lunges everyday, not to fatigue but just to get used to the form and keep doing that until I can easily do 3 sets of 12 with perfect form and not get tired, and then I'd be strong enough to attempt a horse stance. And he recommended that I just stay away from the isometric stretches for a while and just continue to do dynamic stretches (everyday) and static passive stretches (after workouts) until I'm strong enough to maintain the isometric positions. Does this sound about right to anyone?
By back off, I mean limit the range of motion to just the point where you feel the stretch without resistance, and work that narrow range. Your range of motion should increase gradually over the course of a few days.
When rehabilitating a badly injured hamstring, I did "reverse good mornings" for a while--place hands on thighs to mark the limit of your comfortable ROM, where you just start to feel the stretch; bend knees, not hips; bodyweight to start. Go from bent knee to straight leg, not quite locked out--stretches and strengthens everything from foot to seat. Looks amusing, but it works. Otherwise, when I did regular good mornings, I tended to overstretch and get sore for days. You can do reverse toe touches as well.
Dynamic stretches do not mix well with muscles that are tight and sore due to overstretching.
Strength first, then static stretching, then dynamic stretching.
Depends on your pain tolerance and resiliency, too, no question.
Me? I'm old.