very tight adductors

[davepleydell]

Hi all,

I find I have very tight adductors. I can complete the side split test fairly ok. (my hips are quite tight and due to that they try to rotate my foot down rather than allow it to point upwards when resting on the chair as per the test. I can get it to point up and get hips aligned just....)

Even after the test I'm not sure I can do the side splits. For a long time my adductors have been just so tight it's like an elastic band when the stretch is released. ie if we have to use a partner for stretching in class, the legs spring back to the maximum relaxed position. It also takes a long time to get the legs to the maximum. ( say max is about 50cm from the ground.) Even if I never did the splits I'd be happy to be able to reach the maximum I have now without having to force them but instead I can only reach about half of that before the tension on the adductors starts.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why they are so tight and don't really seem to be loosening up. I stretch in the horse riding stance and squeeze inwards as I increase the stretch but I'm finding that I just don't get the speed of results as others indicate is possible.

I wondered if anyone else had encountered a similar situation to me and have any tips to help me to continue improving?

Thanks
David

[michele29]

Hi david,
more or less is the same I wrote in the previus post...IT MUST BE ANOTHER TRICK...
I think the answer is to dedicate more time for 5 steps horse stance..

bye

[davepleydell]

Hi,

So with your lack of stretching progress with the splits, it's your adductors limiting your progress?

David

[tyciol]

I always cheat unconsciously on that chair test, it is too easier to tilt the hips and thus do a 45/45 instead of a 0/90.

[davepleydell]

I've been doing the very wide horse riding stance squats and I think it's having an effect or already.

Though I'm finding the side part of my hip is very tight and I can only just get to where the quads are parallel with the ground. I feel discomfort in the hip area where the leg and torso meet. The side of the hips I find are very restrictive and I can often feel that area first when starting out doing a side split stretch.

I've seen the 90-90 Hip Stretch talked about on the forums. Is that the best stretch for that area? Should I be trying to strengthen that area as well?

David

[The Cougarkid]

dynamic leg raises are the most effective way to make your hips looser. you shud do them twice a day everyday and after a few weeks u will feel completly different.

none of kurz's stuff is a trick, it just need to be performed in a sensible way. most people who pick up his book much like myself. take one look at the title and the testomonials and instantly think there'll be able to achieve the splits in two months easy.
in reality this probably isn't the case. unless ure in great shape, ie ure nearly there but not quite.

think of it this way dave, your quads have full range of motion, i assume u cud stand upright and squat down to get your butt to touch your calves?? well this is basically a split for the quadraceps. the same muscles you've used your whole life for walking,basically they have great strengh in a full range of motion. but to do a 180 degree split between chairs you need to strengthen your tiny adductors muscles to be as strong as your quads.

the adductor muscles are the least utilised in the leg ( how often do we use them?) so this is why we can't all drop down in to the splits cos they are weak.look at the way gymnasts train, it's not all about them being young and supple, that helps but there excercis program is all about strengh in full range of motion!

so what im trying to say is forget about the stretching aspect for a while and try the strengthening route.

ii have been doin this for the last couple of months and seen good results.

morning:dynamics until i can't kick ne higher.

leg day: 4 sets of barbell squats
4 sets of full range lunges
4 sets of leg extentions
(sometimes high rep body weight squats, wide stance)
5 sets of full range stiff legged dead lifts with varying stances
100 adductor flyes
30 adductor flyes with weight
cable pull down 30 reps with weight.

i then do the kurz horse stance split.
i do 1 set of three step hold for 30 sec, then i do it again with weight
then i do the same for 5 step and 7 step then i do one set where i go as low as i can which is curretnly about 8 inches from floor. but unlike before when i used to try over stretch to get as low as possible, i can now stand up without touching the floor in this position, like kurz can from a full splits.

i hope this has helped i know i rambled abit lol.

[davepleydell]

Thanks. It's helpful to hear different comments from everyone trying to achieve a similar outcome. And as you point out everyone is starting from a different point so it will be quicker for some and not so for others. So tips for those who will take longer is very helpful.

I have to stretch due to my martial arts and in the past I didn't find this working well for me but with some extra tips on the horse riding stance squats I'm more encouraged this time as I'm applying it better. I've already passed my max side split position this time around so I think I'm starting to get it right.

I've picked up the strength part a lot. I usually do leg weights once a week, but I do an extra session just on the horse riding stance squats, hamstring stretches using the multi hip machine etc. (has a rotating arm you put your leg on.) You can use that to add weight with the dynamic stretches.

I certainly cannot stand up from a deep side split stretch, I need to use my hands on a chair. So I guess that certainly indicates more strength for the adductors.

I'll give more attention to the dynamic stretches for the side kick position to help lossen up the hips. They are very tight so I'm not sure that will be enough but it certainly can't hurt! (ie when I do that movement, my foot tends to turn up a bit and probably takes some of the pressure off the hip area and then the limiting area is the adductors instead. (I feel them rather than the hips) It's difficult to keep the foot from turning up. I tend to feel it more in the side of the gluts rather than in the side of the hip with that movement.)

[tyciol]

I don't like that test at all, it's worded much too simply and I think whoever wrote it assumed the everyman had the same sense of body awareness that they do, when they simply don't.

I passed the 'split test' but realized as I was doing it that I was cheating. No matter how much I minimized the cheating, I still felt I was. It's very difficult to perceive. All you can really pay attenion to is the angle between your femur. Is it 90? Pass! But actually, we're only supopsed to be measuring the flexibility of one leg here! Only one leg should be abducting!

The problem is that they both abduct. Your hip tilts, the abductors of the base leg pull the hip up and the side of the hip of the raised leg goes up. So that you don't fall over, you then flex your spine sideways to make your head vertical again, to fool yourself that you're not tilting, so your spine flexes towards your raised leg. So you're more likely to get somewhere around 45/45. Even when you straighten out a bit, it still might just be 30/60 or something. Just because you're stretching only one leg does not mean that it's going to perfecty relax and get 90 degrees of motion away from the medial line of the body. While it's true that there is not a muscle running between either leg, both legs can together abduct to increase the angle between them.

I really do not understand the design of this test at all, because someone capable of 180 splits still will not be able to pass it without cheating if they have tight muscles, and someone not capable of the splits might think they are by cheating on the contest.

I've heard when people are sedated that their muscles lose tension and a doctor can move their joints around through a full range of motion. This really seems like the only way to test the capacity of people's flexibility. Even then, ligaments might still be short or non-pliable, I think stretching may lengthen ligaments very gradually in a safe matter over time or something, I dunno.

[elskbrev]

From what you have written, sounds like you have both tight adductors and tight hips. (you wrote:

I'll give more attention to the dynamic stretches for the side kick position to help lossen up the hips. They are very tight so I'm not sure that will be enough but it certainly can't hurt! (ie when I do that movement, my foot tends to turn up a bit and probably takes some of the pressure off the hip area and then the limiting area is the adductors instead. (I feel them rather than the hips) It's difficult to keep the foot from turning up. I tend to feel it more in the side of the gluts rather than in the side of the hip with that movement.)

TheCougarkid said,

dynamic leg raises are the most effective way to make your hips looser. you shud do them twice a day everyday and after a few weeks u will feel completly different.

, however, that may be easier said than done if your 90/90 looks more like a 45/45, or your knees stick up at 45 degrees in the butterfly stretch.

If I understand correctly from Stretching Scientifically, in order to do the side splits, you need to EITHER tip your pelvis way forward while keeping feet parallel and pointed forward OR with pelvis not tipped so much, rotate your leg (femur) outward, which points your feet up.

If you have very tight hips, you might not be able to tip your pelvis enough relative to the femur to keep your feet in the parallel position while doing either the low horse riding stance or Kurz' side leg raises. If you try keeping feet parallel in the side leg raise when you cannot tip your pelvis enough, you will feel the femur jam into the upper edge of your hip socket or even the trochanter into your hip bone. If you try it in the horse riding stance, you will find a limit to how deep you can get in the stance and still maintain correct form.

I’m not saying don’t do the side leg raise exactly as Kurz says, but do it later on when you have gained the necessary flexibility. (Or simply work within your limits, proceeding gradually in correct form.) For now, you can do the side leg raise just as you would do a side kick or round house, with base foot pointing about 135 degrees away from your target. You can keep practicing this “modified” side leg raise to gain dynamic strength and flexibility in this way while also working on other exercises that stretch and strengthen the internal/external rotators of the hips and the adductors. This will not work exactly the same muscle groups that the Kurz style side leg raise works, so don't kid yourself that you are there yet if you achieve a strong side or round house kick. If your goal is side splits, your side leg raises should eventually look as Kurz demonstrates them.

By the way, Kurz posted advice in another string that my be helpful to you at http://www.stadion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1016 .

Best regards,
Cindy

[davepleydell]

My knees do stick up at 45 in the butterfly stretch.

I don't think the dynamic stretch will help me that much. Sure it allows me to kick ok in my TKD class.

It doesn't however allow me to hold my kick in that position because I don't have the strength or flexibility.

I'm working more on the strength part and hopefully that will help once I start stretching harder. (currently I only stretch lightly)

David

[The Cougarkid]

I don't like that test at all, it's worded much too simply and I think whoever wrote it assumed the everyman had the same sense of body awareness that they do, when they simply don't

to tyciol. if u find the traditional sideplit test unsatisfactory, try this. lie flat on your stomach and lift one leg to the side toes pointing forwards like a one legged road kill split. u cannot really cheat in ne way and your definately only using one legs flexibilty.

If I understand correctly from Stretching Scientifically, in order to do the side splits, you need to EITHER tip your pelvis way forward while keeping feet parallel and pointed forward OR with pelvis not tipped so much, rotate your leg (femur) outward, which points your feet up.

If you have very tight hips, you might not be able to tip your pelvis enough relative to the femur to keep your feet in the parallel position while doing either the low horse riding stance or Kurz' side leg raises. If you try keeping feet parallel in the side leg raise when you cannot tip your pelvis enough, you will feel the femur jam into the upper edge of your hip socket or even the trochanter into your hip bone. If you try it in the horse riding stance, you will find a limit to how deep you can get in the stance and still maintain correct form.

to elskbrev, i wud assume that if your hips are so stiff that you cannot tip your pelvis forward enough to get one leg at 90 degrees right from the start of your training then you will never acheive a sidesplit. as for kurz kicking with his foot parallel and tipping his pelvis he does this buy kicking either slightly behind himself or in front, never directly to the side as this is impossible.try it and u will see!

[tyciol]

lie flat on your stomach and lift one leg to the side toes pointing forwards like a one legged road kill split. u cannot really cheat in ne way and your definately only using one legs flexibilty.

This is a cool idea, just trying it out now, anchored the heel of stretched leg on some furniture to keep it from sliding as I moved my torso into position.

This does seem to discourage cheating and give better feedback in terms of avoiding hip tilt compared to the standing version. On the other hand, I didn't pass it because I was not abducting to the point where it was forming a straight line. I tested this because I stuck my hand under the hip. If it's for a perfect split, an equal amount of weight should be there as anywhere else and we should be unable to slide even a pencil under it, right?

In spite of that though, I don't think this means I'm unable to do splits, just that I have tight/weak adductors so I am going to keep training them.