Hi there,
At my local gym I do not have access to back extensions (bench) and so wanted to know the best way to progress.
They do have a seated back extension machine but with this I would be working with gravity and not against it. This would mean lifting 3 sets of 15 of a third of my body weight would be different to bench extensions.
Do I then use this machine or skip straight to doing lighter good mornings? Thanks in advance for any reply
Cheers
BenGman
Question on back extensions
Ben,
I'm a big fan of using free weights whenever possible. I don't know much about this machine that you are describing but if it is meant to be some sort of replacement for Good Mornings (GMs), I would say just forget it and do the GMs with whatever weight you can handle.
There is open debate among exercise afficionados whether machines are more or less safe than free weights. You can do a google search if you want to learn more. The important thing is to do exercises in good form and my personal feeling is that since free weights give you more control over how your body moves, it is easier for you to ensure that you are using good form.
I also think that oftentimes people have a hard time pushing themselves to the max on machines (and I mean their "real" max -- not just want they think is their max) because so many of these machines have soft cushions. It tends to make you relax a bit subconsciously. I don't have any proof of this -- it's just my gut instinct.
These are just my opinions, mind you. But I prefer the feel of cold, hard iron in my hands to remind me that I'm supposed to be working hard.
-Mark
I'm a big fan of using free weights whenever possible. I don't know much about this machine that you are describing but if it is meant to be some sort of replacement for Good Mornings (GMs), I would say just forget it and do the GMs with whatever weight you can handle.
There is open debate among exercise afficionados whether machines are more or less safe than free weights. You can do a google search if you want to learn more. The important thing is to do exercises in good form and my personal feeling is that since free weights give you more control over how your body moves, it is easier for you to ensure that you are using good form.
I also think that oftentimes people have a hard time pushing themselves to the max on machines (and I mean their "real" max -- not just want they think is their max) because so many of these machines have soft cushions. It tends to make you relax a bit subconsciously. I don't have any proof of this -- it's just my gut instinct.
These are just my opinions, mind you. But I prefer the feel of cold, hard iron in my hands to remind me that I'm supposed to be working hard.
-Mark
back extensions
Ben is not referring to a machine, he is referring to a back extension bench. A back extension bench is simply a bench that you can lie on, face down with your feet being hooked under a support. You then move the front part of your body up and down (sorry bad description! please check Mr Kurz article with a diagram at: http://www.stadion.com/column_stretch20.html)
In his articles Mr Kurz recommends starting doing back extensions on the floor, then on a back extension bench. He says that you need to be able to do 10 reps(i think...from memory) on the back extension bench holding weight plates equal to one third of your body weight before moving to good mornings etc.
I don't have a back extension bench either and would be interesetd in an answer to this question. Based on what Mr Kurz says, I am concerned about hurting my back by jumping from back extensions on the floor to good mornings...
If anyone has advice on how to know you are strong enough for Good mornings it would be appreciated.!
Kit
In his articles Mr Kurz recommends starting doing back extensions on the floor, then on a back extension bench. He says that you need to be able to do 10 reps(i think...from memory) on the back extension bench holding weight plates equal to one third of your body weight before moving to good mornings etc.
I don't have a back extension bench either and would be interesetd in an answer to this question. Based on what Mr Kurz says, I am concerned about hurting my back by jumping from back extensions on the floor to good mornings...
If anyone has advice on how to know you are strong enough for Good mornings it would be appreciated.!
Kit
Kit,
All my message was trying to say was that I think machines like this one should be avoided. I can easily see someone allowing their back to round and losing the correct curvature of their spine when using heavy resistance because of that big fat pad in the center of the back. I think many people would believe such a machine to be "safer" than a free weight exercise like good mornings while I would argue that it has the potential to be more injurous (like in the back-rounding example).
It's unfortunate that Ben's gym doesn't have a proper back extension table (aka hyperextension table). We'd have to get Mr. Kurz' opinion on this but I would go for lighter good mornings rather than take my chances with some kind of machine such as is demonstrated in the link I provided above.
That's all I meant. Yes, I understood that Ben wanted the table but then he was asking if he should use a machine or jump straight to good mornings. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
-Mark
All my message was trying to say was that I think machines like this one should be avoided. I can easily see someone allowing their back to round and losing the correct curvature of their spine when using heavy resistance because of that big fat pad in the center of the back. I think many people would believe such a machine to be "safer" than a free weight exercise like good mornings while I would argue that it has the potential to be more injurous (like in the back-rounding example).
It's unfortunate that Ben's gym doesn't have a proper back extension table (aka hyperextension table). We'd have to get Mr. Kurz' opinion on this but I would go for lighter good mornings rather than take my chances with some kind of machine such as is demonstrated in the link I provided above.
That's all I meant. Yes, I understood that Ben wanted the table but then he was asking if he should use a machine or jump straight to good mornings. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
-Mark
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Thomas Kurz
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back extensions
Begin with an empty bar. Make sure you keep your back straight or even slightly arched back--so its curves are the same as in the ideal upright position. In other words, do not slouch your upper back forward and keep the lordosis in your lower back. When you comfortably do 10-12 reps with 2/3 of your body weight on the bar in the good morning lift, then your back and hamstrings are strong.
Thomas Kurz
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Kevinm
Re: back extensions
I just want to verify this: Two thirds of your bodyweight...or one third? Two thirds sounds like a lot of weight to use in good morning.Thomas Kurz wrote:Begin with an empty bar. Make sure you keep your back straight or even slightly arched back--so its curves are the same as in the ideal upright position. In other words, do not slouch your upper back forward and keep the lordosis in your lower back. When you comfortably do 10-12 reps with 2/3 of your body weight on the bar in the good morning lift, then your back and hamstrings are strong.
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Thomas Kurz
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Re: back extensions
No, it is not much for a combat sports athlete. You should see what some track-and-field athletes lift.
When you approach 2/3 of your body weight in a good morning lift you may have to reduce the range of motion so not to lean too much forward because leaning too far forward may cause your lower back to buckle. (In the good morning your form must be perfect--the abdomen tensed and lordosis preserved.)
When you approach 2/3 of your body weight in a good morning lift you may have to reduce the range of motion so not to lean too much forward because leaning too far forward may cause your lower back to buckle. (In the good morning your form must be perfect--the abdomen tensed and lordosis preserved.)
Thomas Kurz
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Kevinm
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Thomas Kurz
- Site Admin
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Dec 03, 2003 08:04
Re: back extensions
In either type of good morning the range of motion should be such as to keep the normal lordosis in your lower back. As the target weight (2/3 of your body weight) is approached gradually in the course of your training program, you will get the feel of it.
Thomas Kurz
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Please note that since I wrote this message, the netfit.co.uk site appears to have changed so that my link above now points to a complete different exercise. It used to point to a back-extension machine, it is currently pointing to a one-arm dumbell row, and heaven only knows what it will point to three months from now. This makes my original post look silly but trust me that it used to point to an exercise where you would sit on a chair and push a padded resistance by using your back.mmeloon wrote:All my message was trying to say was that I think machines like this one should be avoided. I can easily see someone allowing their back to round and losing the correct curvature of their spine when using heavy resistance because of that big fat pad in the center of the back. I think many people would believe such a machine to be "safer" than a free weight exercise like good mornings while I would argue that it has the potential to be more injurous (like in the back-rounding example).
You'll just have to visualize it now, I guess. Sorry about the confusion.
-Mark