Questions about splits stretches

[cailifo]

If you want to be able to do a high roundhouse or side kick with the supporting foot pivoted to just about 45-90 degrees,

I don't think you'll kick very high if you do that. You also won't be able to turn your hip over to the horizontal kicking position required for roundhouse and side kicks. If your base leg is only pivoted 45 degrees, you'll be kicking upward or awkwardly twist the knee of your base leg.

In order to turn the hip of the kicking leg over enough to perform the kick properly, you have to pivot further. At least 90 degrees, and increasing with the height of the kick.

In addition, I just realized another thing. lol. Aren't the front splits actually also useful in facilitating the learning of a high front kick, inside and outside crescent kicks, axe kicks (with the supporting foot going 45-90 degrees)? What about the back kick, hook kick, spin kicks, and jump kicks as well, since the supporting leg is stretched in both the hamstrings and adductors while the kicking leg is stretched in the quadriceps?

Yes. The final extended position is the same in all these kicks, including spin kick if you pause at the height point. The stretch is the same or similar enough. The kicking leg gets a dynamic stretch while the base leg tenses abruptly in a stretch like a static stretch.

[REG]

Btw, I know that the dynamic leg raises from the outside to the inside increase dynamic flexibility and strengthen the adductors as well as facilitating chambering of any kick and learning or practicing inside crescent kicks. However, why aren't there any dynamic leg raises specifically for facilitating the outside kicks like outside crescent or hook kicks? Is it because there are already dynamic exercises that work the opposite of adductors, the abductors, such as leg raises to the side or leg raises to the back?

[cailifo]

Not a great deal of time is spent discussing inside and outside crescent dynamic stretches, but they are mentioned in the book Stretching Scientifically. They are relatively simple movements compared to the side leg raise, and shouldn't need that much attention. It's just getting your joints to rotate in a full circle. They are mentioned in the book though and can be done. Still though, for the hook kick, I think the side leg raise would be a closer stretch to that type of movement.

[REG]

Lowering the knee to the floor and then pushing the front foot forward, rear foot back, or both. Same thing with the open split. I find it's a better stretch, and pushing lower if you actively push both feet apart. Just like a front kick and a back kick.

Actually, when I do the "open" version of the relaxed front splits stretch, I feel a strain on my big toe of my rear leg, probably from being on its side when doing this stretch. Also, when do this version of the front splits I feel a stretch in my knee especially when I lower my knee even more so to try to get a better stretch. I learned that it's not good to stretch any ligaments or tendons in the body as it would destabilize your joints and become hazardous to both your fitness/sports practice and health. So what should I do?

[cailifo]

Don't lower your knee, rather, as I said, push both feet apart, forward and backward. That way your legs straighten and there is no awkward twist or sideways bend on your knee.

[REG]

Ohhh okay, I must have been confused with one of your previous posts:

Lowering the knee to the floor and then pushing the front foot forward, rear foot back, or both. Same thing with the open split. I find it's a better stretch, and pushing lower if you actively push both feet apart. Just like a front kick and a back kick.

See, I thought before that you meant that in the open split position, you lower the knee to the floor along with pushing the front foot forward, rear foot back, or both, just like in the true split.

Also, when doing the open split, are you supposed to have the sole of your rear foot remain planted on the ground or should I have the inner side of my rear foot planted on the ground?

[REG]

Btw, speaking of awkward bend or twist in the knees, I am wondering if doing the side splits, does at least to some extent create an awkward bend or twist in the knee, especially more so the futher you spread your legs apart, and even more so when the legs are also bent at the sametime. I mean if you widened your legs apart a lot and/or bent them when trying to do the side splits, then wouldn't the knees be forced to bend sideways towards the midline, thus creating an awkward twist in both of the knee joints?

[cailifo]

See, I thought before that you meant that in the open split position, you lower the knee to the floor along with pushing the front foot forward, rear foot back, or both, just like in the true split.

With the true front split it's fine to put the knee on the ground, because that's the natural way to bend the knee (backward), not as you would if you lowered the knee when doing an open front split (sideways). I would hold onto the ground or something at the sides to keep the legs up and work on extending them apart in the open split.

Also, when doing the open split, are you supposed to have the sole of your rear foot remain planted on the ground or should I have the inner side of my rear foot planted on the ground?

Inner side.

Regarding your side split question, there should be no awkward twist, bend, or strain on your knees at all if you assume the proper horse riding position for it. See the pictures on the article here: http://stadion.com/column_stretch02.html

Keep your hips and knees in line and do not try to spread the feet farther apart than you are able. Otherwise you will create that awkward sideways bend in the knee. Just focus on slowly improving flexibility in each position as you get lower.

[REG]

Sorry to do this, but more questions, just keep popping up.

Inner side.

Regarding your side split question, there should be no awkward twist, bend, or strain on your knees at all if you assume the proper horse riding position for it. See the pictures on the article here: http://stadion.com/column_stretch02.html

Keep your hips and knees in line and do not try to spread the feet farther apart than you are able. Otherwise you will create that awkward sideways bend in the knee. Just focus on slowly improving flexibility in each position as you get lower.

Since I can only go down to about 21 inches of ground when I do the front splits, should the rear foot be about 45 degrees on its inner side or should it be completely on its inner side, regardless of how flexible I am in this stretch position?

Going back to the side split question again, I understand that as long as you have the correct alignment in your hips, thighs, lower legs, and feet and you tilt your pelvis forward while simultaneously externally rotating your thighs outward, then you will get the proper without damaging your hip or knee ligaments and bones. Yet, how can your knees actually be "in line" with your hips. Also, what exactly do you mean when say "do not try to spread the feet farther apart than you are able to?"

Furthermore, when doing the front splits, terms of the positions of both the hips and torso during the front splits, are they both supposed to be square? Or are you supposed to have the trunk and hips rotated to where the shoulder and hip on the same side as the front leg is rotated towards the front leg, while the hip and shoulder on the same side as the rear leg is rotated towards the rear leg?

In addition, when holding onto supports at your sides while doing the front splits, are the supports supposed to be as high as your hips are at?

Also, when stretching in the front splits, I know that on pg. 85 in the book, Mr. Kurz says to "lean your trunk forward and backward to stretch all the muscles of the thigh, buttocks, and pelvis." But what would happen to your flexibility gains if don't ever lean your trunk forward during the stretch, like the picture in the page of that book? If I decide to lean forward, then how long should I lean forward for, and am am I supposed to lean forward first, then backwards? Am I supposed to take a break in between leaning forward and backward or just switch right away?

[REG]

Not a great deal of time is spent discussing inside and outside crescent dynamic stretches, but they are mentioned in the book Stretching Scientifically. They are relatively simple movements compared to the side leg raise, and shouldn't need that much attention. It's just getting your joints to rotate in a full circle. They are mentioned in the book though and can be done. Still though, for the hook kick, I think the side leg raise would be a closer stretch to that type of movement.

So, I pretty much went through the whole book again and I actually can't seem to find the page(s) that talks about the inside and outside crescent kicks.

[cailifo]

Since I can only go down to about 21 inches of ground when I do the front splits, should the rear foot be about 45 degrees on its inner side or should it be completely on its inner side, regardless of how flexible I am in this stretch position?

Basically, far enough on the side to allow you to slide your foot back. The type of footwear you choose may affect that more or less, but the idea is just to open the hip.

Yet, how can your knees actually be "in line" with your hips. Also, what exactly do you mean when say "do not try to spread the feet farther apart than you are able to?"

What I meant by "in line" was on the same level plane, horizontally. To do that you must sit down with the hips as if sitting on a low chair.

Some people try to spread their feet apart further, as if this will increase their stretch. But if the inner thighs are not flexible enough, what you'll end up doing is having the upper leg stay still, while from knee down the legs try to spread apart, awkwardly bending the knees sideways.

Furthermore, when doing the front splits, terms of the positions of both the hips and torso during the front splits

In the true front split they should be as squared as possible. The open front split allows you to turn to the side and open the hips, which you cant do with the torso completely squared.

In addition, when holding onto supports at your sides while doing the front splits, are the supports supposed to be as high as your hips are at?

Wherever is comfortable and helps you control the stretch.

But what would happen to your flexibility gains if don't ever lean your trunk forward during the stretch, like the picture in the page of that book? If I decide to lean forward, then how long should I lean forward for, and am am I supposed to lean forward first, then backwards? Am I supposed to take a break in between leaning forward and backward or just switch right away?

You lean in order to have a balanced stretch of all muscles. In the split position, while you hold it for whatever duration, you can add some leaning and angling to stretch as you feel. You just feel what needs to be stretched and lean toward it.

[cailifo]

So, I pretty much went through the whole book again and I actually can't seem to find the page(s) that talks about the inside and outside crescent kicks.

It's briefly mentioned when the dynamic stretches are shown. One shows him standing with the foot about head height kicking the opposite hand with the inside of the foot. That is actually an inward dynamic leg swing, or crescent kick.

[REG]

It's briefly mentioned when the dynamic stretches are shown. One shows him standing with the foot about head height kicking the opposite hand with the inside of the foot. That is actually an inward dynamic leg swing, or crescent kick.

But what about outside crescent kicks? I don't see it being mentioned in the book.

[REG]

What I meant by "in line" was on the same level plane, horizontally. To do that you must sit down with the hips as if sitting on a low chair.

Some people try to spread their feet apart further, as if this will increase their stretch. But if the inner thighs are not flexible enough, what you'll end up doing is having the upper leg stay still, while from knee down the legs try to spread apart, awkwardly bending the knees sideways.

Oh, so when spreading your legs apart during the isometric version of the side splits, your knees are protected from any awkward twists or bends inward by having them move down along with your hips and/or not letting your knees go below the horizontal level plane of your hips. Correct?


Btw, in relation to keeping your hips and knees in line, I am just wondering why Mr. Kurz uses the term "alignment" in his book? I mean how is there actually any alignment during the correct form of the side split horse stance or leg raises to the side, when the hip, thigh, knee, and foot are NOT arranged in a straight line?

[REG]

In the true front split they should be as squared as possible. The open front split allows you to turn to the side and open the hips, which you cant do with the torso completely squared.

ahh, so in the open front split, unlike the true front split, you can make the overall position of your legs and torso to be exactly the same as in a high side or roundhouse kick at impact. Yeah?

Furthermore, just to make sure that I do this right. So, when I do the open front split, is it better for hips and torso to be turned completely to the side just like in a high side or roundhouse kick at impact, or should they be turned about 45 degrees (between having your hips and torso square and having your hips and torso turned completely to the side)?

Oh, I forget to ask you about the front foot during the open front split (with supports). Is the front foot supposed to be on its heel with the toes pointing up or should the sole remain planted on the ground?

In addition, just curious, but where did you find out about doing the open version of the front split, as it wasn't obviously shown or even talked about in the stretching book?