Sorry if I am being incessant with many of these questions that I am constantly asking on the forum. I am just trying to be as meticulous as I can be when learning flexibility training, so that I not only make sure that I do everything correctly when I train in general, but also so that I provoke a lot good answers to a lot technical questions to be posted on the forum board.
Anyways, I have some questions regarding splits stretches. First question is, I know that you are supposed to have your knees bent when doing the isometric version of side splits, but should your knees be bent when doing the relaxed version of side splits as well? My second question is, why does Mr. Kurz say in the online article column #4, "...being able to do the front split facilitates (though it is not necessary for) learning high side and roundhouse kicks;" I am confused, in order to execute a high kick like Mr. Kurz's, don't you absolutely need to able to do the full 180 degree splits both (front and side) when sitting? My third question is, in Mr. Kurz's stretching book, it says that when doing the relaxed stretched version of side splits, shift your body weight on your forearms to relax your leg muscles and shift your body back to slide into an even greater stretch. So after you shift your bodyweight backward, how long are you supposed to hold it before shifting your weight back forward onto your forearms? My fourth question is, When practicing on improving your splits, how necessary is it do any of the stretches in Mr. Kurz's stretching book, that are under the sections "stretches that lead into the side split" and "stretches that lead into the front split?" My fifth question is, if I don't feel that I am strong enough or ready yet to practice the isometric versions of front and side splits, then is it still perfectly fine to practice working on the relaxed versions of both types of the splits to improve my splits, while I continue to build my strength in my legs, back, and core stabilizers, etc. until I feel I am ready to do isometric versions? My final question is, in Mr. Kurz's stretching book, he explains that in order to do front the split stretches properly, you need flexibility in your lower back muscles. I don't understand why having a more flexible back would help at all in being able to do the front splits well, I mean wouldn't it actually be better if you had a tighter or stronger lower back because then you could more easily flex the back and tilt the pelvis forward, which is necessary for the front splits?
Questions about splits stretches
Re: Questions about splits stretches
1. It is safer to keep the knees bent during the isometric split stretch in which your legs are supporting all of your weight. In a relaxed stretch the legs don't bear much weight. In such a case, keeping the knees bent may be helpful if you have bad knees to begin with, but shouldn't be necessary otherwise. Do what is most comfortable for you, and provides the best quality of stretch to you.
2. The position of the legs in the front split stretch is similar to the final position of the legs in a high side or roundhouse kick. Therefore the ability to assume this split will facilitate learning these high kicks, but is not necessary for it because a static stretch is a different type of flexibility than what is needed for high kicking, i.e. dynamic flexibility.
3. Shifting the body weight onto the forearms is necessary only to release tension felt during the relaxed stretch by decreasing the pressure on the stretched muscles. Once you relax enough you can shift back and put more weight onto the legs and increase the stretch in what would be your ideal position, since you will be getting a deeper stretch that way. You need shift forward only if the relaxed stretch is becoming isometric.
4. As the book states, it is not recommending you perform all the stretches shown, but choose one or two per muscle or muscle group you are stretching. However, also as stated in the book, these are the stretches "leading to the splits". If your goal is to reach the splits, you should perform those stretches that lead to it. Logically. Right?
5. You generally should not have any problem doing a relaxed split stretch. So long as you keep it "relaxed" and not forced in any way. If you feel pain it's a sign to stop and review your technique.
6. The hip flexor muscles at the front of the hip that are stretched in the rear leg of the front split stretch, actually attach to the lumbar spine. If your lower back is weak and inflexible, this will influence both the quality and the safety of your stretches. Especially if your lower back fatigues easily and is exhausted from a workout prior to stretching. It may then spasm and leave you susceptible to injury.
2. The position of the legs in the front split stretch is similar to the final position of the legs in a high side or roundhouse kick. Therefore the ability to assume this split will facilitate learning these high kicks, but is not necessary for it because a static stretch is a different type of flexibility than what is needed for high kicking, i.e. dynamic flexibility.
3. Shifting the body weight onto the forearms is necessary only to release tension felt during the relaxed stretch by decreasing the pressure on the stretched muscles. Once you relax enough you can shift back and put more weight onto the legs and increase the stretch in what would be your ideal position, since you will be getting a deeper stretch that way. You need shift forward only if the relaxed stretch is becoming isometric.
4. As the book states, it is not recommending you perform all the stretches shown, but choose one or two per muscle or muscle group you are stretching. However, also as stated in the book, these are the stretches "leading to the splits". If your goal is to reach the splits, you should perform those stretches that lead to it. Logically. Right?
5. You generally should not have any problem doing a relaxed split stretch. So long as you keep it "relaxed" and not forced in any way. If you feel pain it's a sign to stop and review your technique.
6. The hip flexor muscles at the front of the hip that are stretched in the rear leg of the front split stretch, actually attach to the lumbar spine. If your lower back is weak and inflexible, this will influence both the quality and the safety of your stretches. Especially if your lower back fatigues easily and is exhausted from a workout prior to stretching. It may then spasm and leave you susceptible to injury.
Re: Questions about splits stretches
I understand that, but Passive Static ROM determines dynamic active ROM. So how can you kick very high without having the flexibility of being able to do the splits?cailifo wrote: 2. The position of the legs in the front split stretch is similar to the final position of the legs in a high side or roundhouse kick. Therefore the ability to assume this split will facilitate learning these high kicks, but is not necessary for it because a static stretch is a different type of flexibility than what is needed for high kicking, i.e. dynamic flexibility.
Re: Questions about splits stretches
I wouldn't say it "determines", but surely influences. It is entirely possible to be able to do splits in all directions, but not be able to kick very high. It is also possible to be able to kick high without the ability to do a full split. After all your highest target will never be 180 degrees above your head. There is crossover between the two, but not 100% either way. It is of course ideal to develop them both to your max.REG wrote:I understand that, but Passive Static ROM determines dynamic active ROM. So how can you kick very high without having the flexibility of being able to do the splits?
Re: Questions about splits stretches
oh, so your saying that order to kick high you need to develop your static and/or isometrics splits along with developing strength and dynamic flexibility in the hips, legs, back, and core stabilizers etc. It's just that to be able to kick the highest target possible, your splits don't have necessarily be developed to point of being able to do a full split; a NEAR or ALMOST full static and/or isometric split enough (like about 1 foot away from doing a full split). Right?cailifo wrote: I wouldn't say it "determines", but surely influences. It is entirely possible to be able to do splits in all directions, but not be able to kick very high. It is also possible to be able to kick high without the ability to do a full split. After all your highest target will never be 180 degrees above your head. There is crossover between the two, but not 100% either way. It is of course ideal to develop them both to your max.
Also, when I do the front split stretch, I don't feel any stretch in the quadriceps of my rear leg for some reason. I mean I try to tilt my pelvis forward as much as I can as well as readjusting my stretching position many times to try to get a stretch in my quadriceps. So, what should I do?
Btw, when doing the front or side splits stretches, either isometric or relaxed versions, on what kind of floor is it best to do those particular stretches? on a rug, exercise mat or hard floor (such as wood or concrete)?
Re: Questions about splits stretches
Realistically, you'll never have to kick vertically. At most, if you can kick to your own head height or above, then you have all the flexibility you need for high kicks. It would not be practical or safe to kick too high.
Other than that, to increase the stretch of the quadriceps put your rear knee on the floor and pull your rear foot to the buttocks. This stretch is shown in the book. You're guaranteed to feel a stretch then.
See if keeping your back vertical doesn't help. If you are leaning your trunk forward to reach the floor with your hands, then the angle between your back leg and upper body is not enough to create a good stretch. Instead of leaning forward to reach the floor, use something higher for support, such as two chairs or blocks. As you get lower you can support yourself on the floor without leaning forward too much.REG wrote:Also, when I do the front split stretch, I don't feel any stretch in the quadriceps of my rear leg for some reason. I mean I try to tilt my pelvis forward as much as I can as well as readjusting my stretching position many times to try to get a stretch in my quadriceps. So, what should I do?
Other than that, to increase the stretch of the quadriceps put your rear knee on the floor and pull your rear foot to the buttocks. This stretch is shown in the book. You're guaranteed to feel a stretch then.
Experiment. See what is best for you. I personally practice on a wood floor, because that's what I have. For some stretches I wear more slippery shoes, for others shoes with more grip.Btw, when doing the front or side splits stretches, either isometric or relaxed versions, on what kind of floor is it best to do those particular stretches? on a rug, exercise mat or hard floor (such as wood or concrete)?
Re: Questions about splits stretches
Actually, you know I just thought of something. What if you only worked on improving the side splits, but not the front splits at all. I understand that the front splits is supposed to facilitate correct foot and leg position of a high roundhouse or side kick because of the way the legs are set up to be like in the impact phase of a roundhouse or side kick. However, I just realized that the position of the torso and hips during the splits are not the same as the position of the torso and hips during the impact phase of a roundhouse or side kick. When I compare the front split with the side split, I think that the side split would appear to actually be more useful in facilitating the position of your entire body correctly for a high side or roundhouse kick, because in that case the hips and torso as well as the legs and feet appear to be in the same position as they would be during the impact phase of a side or roundhouse kick. Therefore, wouldn't you render the front splits to be useless for improving your kicks. I mean, wouldn't all you need in order to improve your static passive/isometric flexibility for a roundhouse or side kick, is to work on improving your side splits? Also, if I wanted to improve my static passive/isometric flexibility in my hamstrings for a front kick, high stretch, or axe kick, then instead of doing the front splits, couldn't I just work on improving my relaxed and isometric versions of the lying hamstring stretches?
Btw, how many times a week do you yourself practice working on the splits?
Btw, how many times a week do you yourself practice working on the splits?
Re: Questions about splits stretches
I already tried keeping my back vertical on the floor. Still, their is very little to no stretch on the quadriceps. However, when I did try your idea to use supports or chairs I think that it actually worked. Though, I just want to make sure that I am doing this right. So, I use two blocks or chairs, one on each side of my hips and set them on the desired height. Next, I would place my right hand or arm onto the right block or chair while I place my left hand or arm onto the left block or chair, using my arm strength to support my body which will hang down while assuming the front split stretch position. Then, in order to feel an even greater stretch in the quads of my rear leg and the hamstrings of my front leg, I gradually lower my hips and torso straight down. Is this correct? Also, since my flexibility in this stretch is not so good, and because I am going to use supports this time to help improve my stretch in this position, my legs will angle even more upward and my hips and upper body will be even higher of the ground. So how should my feet be positioned be; I mean in this case should the front foot be flat while the rear foot has its toes and ball of the foot push down and the heel off the floor, or should both feet still be exactly the same as if you were able to do a full split?cailifo wrote:see if keeping your back vertical doesn't help. If you are leaning your trunk forward to reach the floor with your hands, then the angle between your back leg and upper body is not enough to create a good stretch. Instead of leaning forward to reach the floor, use something higher for support, such as two chairs or blocks. As you get lower you can support yourself on the floor without leaning forward too much.
Re: Questions about splits stretches
Regarding splits for high kicks, it is not simply the similar position that facilitates the learning of high kicks. It is the type of stretch. While the upper body and the kicking leg in a high roundhouse or side kick may appear to be more like a side split, that is all dynamic. The base leg, however, is pivoted into a position that makes the hamstring tense strongly during a kick, much like a static stretch, although abrupt. This static flexibility issue of the hamstring is what makes the front split stretch useful for learning high side kicks, not simply the overall position.
Regarding lying stretches for high kicks, yes that type of stretching will help, but it depends on your goal. To develop maximal flexibility means to achieve splits, which will undoubtedly improve your kicks. If that is your goal then continue to work on the splits.
I personally practice splits training, at least three times per week. No less.
Regarding the use of chairs, yes you have understood the technique correctly. It is easiest to do the "open" front split with this technique, where your back foot is on it's side and the knee faces sideways. To do a "true" front split, just turn your leg downward, instep on the floor with toes pointing backward. You can lower your rear knee to the floor for this stretch, or just keep pushing the feet apart, forward and backward respectively.
Regarding lying stretches for high kicks, yes that type of stretching will help, but it depends on your goal. To develop maximal flexibility means to achieve splits, which will undoubtedly improve your kicks. If that is your goal then continue to work on the splits.
I personally practice splits training, at least three times per week. No less.
Regarding the use of chairs, yes you have understood the technique correctly. It is easiest to do the "open" front split with this technique, where your back foot is on it's side and the knee faces sideways. To do a "true" front split, just turn your leg downward, instep on the floor with toes pointing backward. You can lower your rear knee to the floor for this stretch, or just keep pushing the feet apart, forward and backward respectively.
Re: Questions about splits stretches
Do you also do them every other day or consecutively? Also, how advanced are you in your flexibility or splits? The reason why I am asking these questions is because as a beginner I am not sure specifically how many times or days per week I should I practice the splits as well as working on my overall leg flexibility for high kicking.cailifo wrote:I personally practice splits training, at least three times per week. No less.
Re: Questions about splits stretches
So in the "true" front split you move into a greater stretch by either lowering your rear knee to the floor for this stretch or moving your apart as opposed to the "open" front split where you SLIDE into a greater stretch by gradually lowering down your torso and hips. Correct?cailifo wrote:Regarding splits for high kicks, it is not simply the similar position that facilitates the learning of high kicks. It is the type of stretch. While the upper body and the kicking leg in a high roundhouse or side kick may appear to be more like a side split, that is all dynamic. The base leg, however, is pivoted into a position that makes the hamstring tense strongly during a kick, much like a static stretch, although abrupt. This static flexibility issue of the hamstring is what makes the front split stretch useful for learning high side kicks, not simply the overall position.
Regarding lying stretches for high kicks, yes that type of stretching will help, but it depends on your goal. To develop maximal flexibility means to achieve splits, which will undoubtedly improve your kicks. If that is your goal then continue to work on the splits.
I personally practice splits training, at least three times per week. No less.
Regarding the use of chairs, yes you have understood the technique correctly. It is easiest to do the "open" front split with this technique, where your back foot is on it's side and the knee faces sideways. To do a "true" front split, just turn your leg downward, instep on the floor with toes pointing backward. You can lower your rear knee to the floor for this stretch, or just keep pushing the feet apart, forward and backward respectively.
Re: Questions about splits stretches
What I was referring to doing at least three times per week is actually the isometric splits. On the in between days I practice relaxed stretches, including holding split stretches for a minute or two for a few sets. I also make sure to have resting days where all the stretching I do is simple relaxed stretches.REG wrote:Do you also do them every other day or consecutively? Also, how advanced are you in your flexibility or splits? The reason why I am asking these questions is because as a beginner I am not sure specifically how many times or days per week I should I practice the splits as well as working on my overall leg flexibility for high kicking.
This has worked well for me, but may well be too much for you. You have to experiment and see how your body responds. I was much more flexible before, but am currently recovering my previous state. I have been back on Kurz' method for a month or two now and am near both splits again. Previously I was too weak for isometrics. This time I can do them at the end of a strength workout with no problem. So I am advancing quite well.
Re: Questions about splits stretches
Lowering the knee to the floor and then pushing the front foot forward, rear foot back, or both. Same thing with the open split. I find it's a better stretch, and pushing lower if you actively push both feet apart. Just like a front kick and a back kick.REG wrote:So in the "true" front split you move into a greater stretch by either lowering your rear knee to the floor for this stretch or moving your apart as opposed to the "open" front split where you SLIDE into a greater stretch by gradually lowering down your torso and hips. Correct?
Re: Questions about splits stretches
Oh yeah, just to make sure, you knew that I have been asking all along about the relaxed stretched version of the front splits. Right?
Re: Questions about splits stretches
Oh so are you saying that if you turn the supporting leg and foot 170-180 degrees when doing a high side kick or roundhouse kick, then the stretch in the supporting leg would be mostly in the hamstrings. Also, it wouldn't enough static passive stretching for the hamstrings and quadriceps to do the just the stretches that "lead into a front split" without practicing the front split stretch (if your goal is to do a high roundhouse or side kick with the base leg pivoted 170-180 degrees), because the front split stretch not only stretches the hamstrings of the front leg, but also contracts or strengthens both legs naturally at the same time since the legs are widening apart from each other. If you want to be able to do a high roundhouse or side kick with the supporting foot pivoted to just about 45-90 degrees, then just the side split stretch along with the stretches that "lead into a side split" would be all you need for static passive/isometric flexibility. Is this all correct?cailifo wrote:Regarding splits for high kicks, it is not simply the similar position that facilitates the learning of high kicks. It is the type of stretch. While the upper body and the kicking leg in a high roundhouse or side kick may appear to be more like a side split, that is all dynamic. The base leg, however, is pivoted into a position that makes the hamstring tense strongly during a kick, much like a static stretch, although abrupt. This static flexibility issue of the hamstring is what makes the front split stretch useful for learning high side kicks, not simply the overall position.
In addition, I just realized another thing. lol. Aren't the front splits actually also useful in facilitating the learning of a high front kick, inside and outside crescent kicks, axe kicks (with the supporting foot going 45-90 degrees)? What about the back kick, hook kick, spin kicks, and jump kicks as well, since the supporting leg is stretched in both the hamstrings and adductors while the kicking leg is stretched in the quadriceps?