Isometric stretching everyday?
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James Paterson
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Jul 06, 2007 08:52
- Location: France
Isometric stretching everyday?
Can I perform isometric stretching everyday? I heard you can only do them every second day, so on every second day, I do relaxed stretching, however, I feel they don't help me at all. I do not hold a stretch for more than minute in relaxed stretching and I doubt it's enough and a lot of the time I don't have the time to stay in a stretch for 5-10 minutes. Therefore back to the original question^
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James Paterson
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Jul 06, 2007 08:52
- Location: France
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James Paterson
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Jul 06, 2007 08:52
- Location: France
Just subjective if you want, do you know what subjective means? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/subjective
Hi James. Thanx for the subjective explanation and link. I think i get it. You are aiming for the theory that if you are puttin less isometric tension on each muscle daily than you could do isometric more frequently. I think that unrelated how strong tension you do, an isometric is an isometric. So if you did today isometrics for adductors no matter how hard you tensed or how many repetitions and series you did, the adductor muscle will have to rest for 40 or more hours.
By David de Angelis expert of muscular physiology and training techniques:
Isometric stretching is training that is particularly demanding on the affected musculature, and it is necessary that the principles which regulate strength training are respected. Adequate rest between isometric training sessions (at least 40 hours)is necessary. If recovery between training is not sufficient, one will have a drop in strength of maximum openings and then in general openings. Advised frequency: minimum two, maximum three times per week.
ATTENTION: increasing training sessions for the purpose of speeding up improvements constitites a grave error. Musclular overtraining in isometric stretching-through excessive loads and/or excessive stretching brings inflammations and muscular pains that automatically reduce opening. Tired muscles are less strong and elastic.
I hope this helps.
By David de Angelis expert of muscular physiology and training techniques:
Isometric stretching is training that is particularly demanding on the affected musculature, and it is necessary that the principles which regulate strength training are respected. Adequate rest between isometric training sessions (at least 40 hours)is necessary. If recovery between training is not sufficient, one will have a drop in strength of maximum openings and then in general openings. Advised frequency: minimum two, maximum three times per week.
ATTENTION: increasing training sessions for the purpose of speeding up improvements constitites a grave error. Musclular overtraining in isometric stretching-through excessive loads and/or excessive stretching brings inflammations and muscular pains that automatically reduce opening. Tired muscles are less strong and elastic.
I hope this helps.
Hi.
I believe intensity does have an impact on how often you can do isometrics.
I've had physiotherapy before which involved mild PNF. This was done every day. If the intensity of the contraction is small enough, relative to your level of strength you should be able to do isometrics many times a day.
Let's make an analogy. Let's assume you do heavy weights on your legs and you leave 72 hours to recover from the workout. Do you avoid walking during that 72 hours? Of course not, because the level of intensity of walking is so small it doesn't impact on your recovery.
Likewise, if you do very light PNF, you can get some benefit without impacting on your recovery from a heavy PNF session.
It's all about how you apply it. If you do brutal PNF every day you will end up in trouble. If you do very light PNF every day you will not get much benefit. If you do some heavy and some light through the week you will be just fine. The key is learning what you can cope with.
Cheers
Tim...
I believe intensity does have an impact on how often you can do isometrics.
I've had physiotherapy before which involved mild PNF. This was done every day. If the intensity of the contraction is small enough, relative to your level of strength you should be able to do isometrics many times a day.
Let's make an analogy. Let's assume you do heavy weights on your legs and you leave 72 hours to recover from the workout. Do you avoid walking during that 72 hours? Of course not, because the level of intensity of walking is so small it doesn't impact on your recovery.
Likewise, if you do very light PNF, you can get some benefit without impacting on your recovery from a heavy PNF session.
It's all about how you apply it. If you do brutal PNF every day you will end up in trouble. If you do very light PNF every day you will not get much benefit. If you do some heavy and some light through the week you will be just fine. The key is learning what you can cope with.
Cheers
Tim...
Frequency of isometrics
Tim,pliskin wrote: By David de Angelis expert of muscular physiology and training techniques:
"Isometric stretching is training that is particularly demanding on the affected musculature, and it is necessary that the principles which regulate strength training are respected. Adequate rest between isometric training sessions (at least 40 hours)is necessary. If recovery between training is not sufficient, one will have a drop in strength of maximum openings and then in general openings. Advised frequency: minimum two, maximum three times per week.
ATTENTION: increasing training sessions for the purpose of speeding up improvements constitites a grave error. Musclular overtraining in isometric stretching-through excessive loads and/or excessive stretching brings inflammations and muscular pains that automatically reduce opening. Tired muscles are less strong and elastic."
I hope this helps.
"pliskin" has a valid point, especially in light of his reference to De Angelis' work.
I gave up daily Pilates when I took up martial arts due to how tired my muscles were for hours after a Pilates workout. (An effective Pilates routine is highly isometric.) When I was still doing Pilates in the a.m. before class, I would arrive at the dojang with muscles too tired (a "drop in strength") to perform well the technical workout.
I would not do an intense isometric workout on the same day as a technical workout unless I fit it in later in the day after class and then gave myself about two days recovery time before my next class. I say "two days" but 40 hours sounds about right, based on my experience.
On the off day, one can do cardio, dynamic stretching, light technical practice and dynamic strength training, but no further isometrics.
Cindy
p.s. Tim, Walking isn't even mildly "isometric" so how does that apply to recovery from any isometric workout, light or heavy? What's with "72 hours to recover" and is "very light PNF" even worth doing? C
Hi.
I think you are missing my point. What I'm saying is that everything is a metter of intensity. Sure, if you do a gut-busting session of PNF every day you are likely to get injured. The same way if you do heavy bench press every day you will get overtrained and injured.
On the other had, if you do PNF with strong contractions a few times a week, then use only mild contractions the other days you will probably stay injury free. The amount of effort will vary with everyone.
Going back to my point about physiotherapy, you may do PNF every day, but the amount of effort in the contractions against the stretch is relatively minor. Even so, it still tricks the stretch reflex. The point here is you are tricking the stretch reflex, but not working on the strength in the extended position. Same technique, different usage.
PNF doesn't have to involve a massive anaerobic contraction. It can be just mild tension.
Remember, I'm not advising everyone to do PNF every day. I'm just saying it's not "dangerous" to do it every day provided you use your brain and don't act like a meathead during every session.
Cheers
Tim...
I think you are missing my point. What I'm saying is that everything is a metter of intensity. Sure, if you do a gut-busting session of PNF every day you are likely to get injured. The same way if you do heavy bench press every day you will get overtrained and injured.
On the other had, if you do PNF with strong contractions a few times a week, then use only mild contractions the other days you will probably stay injury free. The amount of effort will vary with everyone.
Going back to my point about physiotherapy, you may do PNF every day, but the amount of effort in the contractions against the stretch is relatively minor. Even so, it still tricks the stretch reflex. The point here is you are tricking the stretch reflex, but not working on the strength in the extended position. Same technique, different usage.
PNF doesn't have to involve a massive anaerobic contraction. It can be just mild tension.
Remember, I'm not advising everyone to do PNF every day. I'm just saying it's not "dangerous" to do it every day provided you use your brain and don't act like a meathead during every session.
Cheers
Tim...
PNF
Tim…
I appreciate your comments. Your point is well taken. Proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation (PNF), another name for “contract-relax stretching” or “isometric stretching,” is used at lower intensities and recommended at greater frequency when applied to rehabilitation post injury. Having made my share of beginner’s phase errors at this point, I am well acquainted with the concept. My kinesiologist even has me doing strength training on a daily basis, which would seem contradictory to a rational three times weekly regimen if the resistance were not so light. On recovery, greatest gains are made in small frequent increments over time.
PNF as many of us understand it, however, is nothing like the type of intense isometric stretching Kurz advocates in his book, Stretching Scientifically. Significant strength training is prerequisite to the intense isometrics Kurz talks about, and I think that is where pliskin, above, was coming from. So was I, for that matter.
Incidentally, Kurz does not often mention “PNF” in Stretching Scientifically. Perhaps this is in part because “PNF” has acquired something of its own definition through its use in rehabilitation or because it is often accomplished in "advanced" stretching regimens with the assistance of a partner, something Kurz considers "a waste of time” and “dangerous.” As he points out in his book, “If you feel pain and let your partner know about it, by the time your partner reacts, it can be too late.”
All this to say, yes, I agree with everything you just wrote, but I wouldn't equate Kurz style isometrics for splits training with “PNF,” per se.
Best regards,
Cindy
I appreciate your comments. Your point is well taken. Proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation (PNF), another name for “contract-relax stretching” or “isometric stretching,” is used at lower intensities and recommended at greater frequency when applied to rehabilitation post injury. Having made my share of beginner’s phase errors at this point, I am well acquainted with the concept. My kinesiologist even has me doing strength training on a daily basis, which would seem contradictory to a rational three times weekly regimen if the resistance were not so light. On recovery, greatest gains are made in small frequent increments over time.
PNF as many of us understand it, however, is nothing like the type of intense isometric stretching Kurz advocates in his book, Stretching Scientifically. Significant strength training is prerequisite to the intense isometrics Kurz talks about, and I think that is where pliskin, above, was coming from. So was I, for that matter.
Incidentally, Kurz does not often mention “PNF” in Stretching Scientifically. Perhaps this is in part because “PNF” has acquired something of its own definition through its use in rehabilitation or because it is often accomplished in "advanced" stretching regimens with the assistance of a partner, something Kurz considers "a waste of time” and “dangerous.” As he points out in his book, “If you feel pain and let your partner know about it, by the time your partner reacts, it can be too late.”
All this to say, yes, I agree with everything you just wrote, but I wouldn't equate Kurz style isometrics for splits training with “PNF,” per se.
Best regards,
Cindy