Hello all,
I have Mr Kurtz's video for many years, and I'm using this method whenever I want to gain some progress in my splits.
I was enable to do all splits (front and side) for some years after a good warm up and static streches.
There are two problems:
1. There are some periods, during them I feel very good, and enable to do all splits (after static streches), but in others, my flexibility is decreasing although I do all thing to maintain my gains. Then, I run to the video, working hard, and get my splits again.
2. Every time after a good streching sesion (that may includes also strength session), It tooks no more few hours (for sometimes less from that) that I returned to my initial status like I didn't do anything.
This means that I can't get even one step beyond what I had before using the video without doing some static streches.
To clear things, before using the video, I was 30 cm from ground with no warm up, but 15 cm with a warm up in side split. After using the video I was able to do a full side split with my thighs touching the floor after a warm up and static streches, but still 30 cm with no warm up.
I have to say that I ever get sore the day after a stretching sesion although I fill stifness. Also when I do leg raises in the morning, I get injured, although my legs are not weak ( I squat with 1.3-1.5 of my body weight).
Sorry for my English
Gil
Few hours after doing the side split, and maintain it for ye
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gilhapkido
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Aug 28, 2007 04:40
gilhapkido,
If I understand you correctly, the isometrics in the tape work for you, to an extent, but have limits, and you find less use for the dynamic stretches because you find you get injured when doing them; this, even though your fitness level is apparently excellent—you have achieved full splits due primarily to regular static stretching and you are strong.
I am just supposing there are fine points to the dynamic stretching technique that you aren’t seeing on the tape but which are described in excruciating detail in Kurz’ book and articles, if you are a great reader...of English.
I will also assume for the moment that the injuries you get after doing the dynamic stretches are muscular, not tendon. If you have tendonitis type injuries, only a long period of rest will rehabilitate them, as much as a year or more, and no one looks forward to that, but it can happen if an injury is not allowed to fully heal. Muscular injuries range from normal—those tiny tears you get every time you lift heavy weights, resulting in a minor soreness that goes away after a day or two as muscle mass increases—to serious, requiring 2-6 weeks recovery, with physical therapy.
That said, if your muscular injuries are a result of improper form or technique, perhaps take the tape and watch it in slow motion, at 30-50% speed, to observe every nuance of Kurz’ demonstrated form. Note where, exactly, does he place his body weight, the angle of the kick relative to his body, the placement of feet, and so on.
If the problem is that you are letting your dynamic kicks get ballistic (you kick with such speed and force that the kick and resultant stretch are forced with power too far), you might try his kicking the hand technique for front and sides to better control the range of motion. Place your hand where the kick should end, starting lower than you know you can kick, increasing speed after a few reps, and then height, continuing thus until you reach your maximal dynamic flexibility.
I have the impression from reading Kurz' work that proficiency in both the dynamic stretching and isometric stretching are necessary to achieve the splits with no warmup (correct me if I am wrong).
That you have difficulty with the dynamic stretching might be one reason you do not have great success doing splits with no warm up. It is possible, also, though only you will know, that though your legs are very strong, they may not be sufficiently so in the adductors.
I am not sure this is of help to you, but wish you best of luck. Maybe someone else in the forum may comment.
Best regards,
Cindy
If I understand you correctly, the isometrics in the tape work for you, to an extent, but have limits, and you find less use for the dynamic stretches because you find you get injured when doing them; this, even though your fitness level is apparently excellent—you have achieved full splits due primarily to regular static stretching and you are strong.
I am just supposing there are fine points to the dynamic stretching technique that you aren’t seeing on the tape but which are described in excruciating detail in Kurz’ book and articles, if you are a great reader...of English.
I will also assume for the moment that the injuries you get after doing the dynamic stretches are muscular, not tendon. If you have tendonitis type injuries, only a long period of rest will rehabilitate them, as much as a year or more, and no one looks forward to that, but it can happen if an injury is not allowed to fully heal. Muscular injuries range from normal—those tiny tears you get every time you lift heavy weights, resulting in a minor soreness that goes away after a day or two as muscle mass increases—to serious, requiring 2-6 weeks recovery, with physical therapy.
That said, if your muscular injuries are a result of improper form or technique, perhaps take the tape and watch it in slow motion, at 30-50% speed, to observe every nuance of Kurz’ demonstrated form. Note where, exactly, does he place his body weight, the angle of the kick relative to his body, the placement of feet, and so on.
If the problem is that you are letting your dynamic kicks get ballistic (you kick with such speed and force that the kick and resultant stretch are forced with power too far), you might try his kicking the hand technique for front and sides to better control the range of motion. Place your hand where the kick should end, starting lower than you know you can kick, increasing speed after a few reps, and then height, continuing thus until you reach your maximal dynamic flexibility.
I have the impression from reading Kurz' work that proficiency in both the dynamic stretching and isometric stretching are necessary to achieve the splits with no warmup (correct me if I am wrong).
That you have difficulty with the dynamic stretching might be one reason you do not have great success doing splits with no warm up. It is possible, also, though only you will know, that though your legs are very strong, they may not be sufficiently so in the adductors.
I am not sure this is of help to you, but wish you best of luck. Maybe someone else in the forum may comment.
Best regards,
Cindy
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gilhapkido
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Aug 28, 2007 04:40
Hi Cindy,
I appreciate your reply, and impressed from your knowladge.
Let me clear some things,
Yes, isometric stretches in the video tape are genius. The dynamic stretches also worked for me, but just doing them in the evening during the warm up for my class or for a session that I do for myself. However, in the morning, when I fill stiffness, doing the dynamic stretches cause me an injury.
I have to point out that the dynamic stretches are very helpfull for kicking above the head cold, but i don't see any relation to static splits.
I played the tape over and over, and I have read almost all Mr. Kurtz's articels (for sure all of them that discussing flexibility), but I don't have the book. Is there something that the video doesn't have?
I probably will order the book and see, this must be worth.
the way I kick has a little differece from what Kurtz demonstrated in the video tape. For example, the roundhouse and the side kicks, I first raise my knee in front, then turn the hip so the knee pointing to the target, and kick like all the body and entire kicking leg are in one line (this gives power).
Thanks for interesting discussion
Gil
Israel
I appreciate your reply, and impressed from your knowladge.
Let me clear some things,
Yes, isometric stretches in the video tape are genius. The dynamic stretches also worked for me, but just doing them in the evening during the warm up for my class or for a session that I do for myself. However, in the morning, when I fill stiffness, doing the dynamic stretches cause me an injury.
I have to point out that the dynamic stretches are very helpfull for kicking above the head cold, but i don't see any relation to static splits.
I played the tape over and over, and I have read almost all Mr. Kurtz's articels (for sure all of them that discussing flexibility), but I don't have the book. Is there something that the video doesn't have?
I probably will order the book and see, this must be worth.
the way I kick has a little differece from what Kurtz demonstrated in the video tape. For example, the roundhouse and the side kicks, I first raise my knee in front, then turn the hip so the knee pointing to the target, and kick like all the body and entire kicking leg are in one line (this gives power).
I think dynamic stretching is necessary for kicking without a warmup, but the isometrics and relaxed stretches are for the splits without a warmup. If I remember correctly, Mr. Kurtz mentioned in the tape that relaxed stretches can be done during the day whenever we want with no warm-up. And also that after his program, a full split can be achived in two minutes(or I don't remember exactly the duration) with no warm-up. So, I assume that doing that, relaxed stretches will be beneficial for reducing the time it takes to achive full splits with no warm-up.I have the impression from reading Kurz' work that proficiency in both the dynamic stretching and isometric stretching are necessary to achieve the splits with no warmup (correct me if I am wrong).
Thanks for interesting discussion
Gil
Israel
Gil,
Sorry for not responding right away. I got busy with things and am back working out now after a couple weeks rest. Your English is getting impressive, by the way. *smiles*.
I did some reviewing in Kurz' book and found at least a half dozen entries in the Question and Answer section alone that seemed to address the very issues you initially inquired about--post workout soreness and lack of lasting results when or soon after using his methods.
More importantly, however, is Kurz' assertion that there is a direct correlation between increased strength and decreased muscle tension with resultant decreased resistance to stretching. (see, for example, p. 123, Stretching Scientifically (SS)) In addition, he states that dynamic flexibility decreases this resistance to stretching with an effect that lasts longer than such decrease accomplished through static stretching alone. (p. 120, SS)
This implies that it takes more than static flexibility to do the splits without warmup primarily because static flexibility does not develop the POSITION SPECIFIC strength necessary for the task. (1) The horseback riding stance method of isometrics is specifically designed to develop strength in the adductors, (etc.), while (2) regular dynamic stretching done twice daily as Kurz recommends should enable one to display the splits at a moment's notice, without warmup.
I found the following in Kurz' recent response to someone else in this forum about the correct method to do these isometrics and I thought it might be helpful to you:
( see http://stadion.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php ... 235f3e4802 )
I hope this finds you well.
Best regards,
Cindy
Sorry for not responding right away. I got busy with things and am back working out now after a couple weeks rest. Your English is getting impressive, by the way. *smiles*.
I did some reviewing in Kurz' book and found at least a half dozen entries in the Question and Answer section alone that seemed to address the very issues you initially inquired about--post workout soreness and lack of lasting results when or soon after using his methods.
More importantly, however, is Kurz' assertion that there is a direct correlation between increased strength and decreased muscle tension with resultant decreased resistance to stretching. (see, for example, p. 123, Stretching Scientifically (SS)) In addition, he states that dynamic flexibility decreases this resistance to stretching with an effect that lasts longer than such decrease accomplished through static stretching alone. (p. 120, SS)
This implies that it takes more than static flexibility to do the splits without warmup primarily because static flexibility does not develop the POSITION SPECIFIC strength necessary for the task. (1) The horseback riding stance method of isometrics is specifically designed to develop strength in the adductors, (etc.), while (2) regular dynamic stretching done twice daily as Kurz recommends should enable one to display the splits at a moment's notice, without warmup.
I found the following in Kurz' recent response to someone else in this forum about the correct method to do these isometrics and I thought it might be helpful to you:
( see http://stadion.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php ... 235f3e4802 )
Note in the quote above that Kurz says, "Resist the temptation to rush to the ground even when your thighs are a mere inch above it..." Doing so cheats you out of developing the necessary strength to do the splits without warmup. I imagine that if you can do static splits with warmup, it may be easy to just sink into the splits at that point. If not, rushing the process could be part of your post workout "stiffness" problem and not just the way you were doing the dynamic stretches. If that is the case, reduce load, rest and repair, be attentive to correct form, and employ patience.Begin with work on the side split.
Spread your feet only to the width at which you comfortably control your stance.
When you are comfortable at a given width of your horse-riding stance, first work on lowering your hips--not on spreading your feet wider. Work on spreading your feet wider only when your buttocks at below your knees in the stance. Repeat this process at every new width.
Resist temptation to rush to the ground even when your thighs are a mere inch above it. Isometric stretching in low horse-riding stance is like lifting a heavy weight at maximal range of motion--it seriously stresses the inner thigh muscles. “Pushing it” too hard, even if it does not cause a muscle strain, fatigues these muscles so much that they may need more than 3 days of rest, If you have to rest more than 2-3 days between workouts, you may end up stagnating or even losing strength and flexibility instead of progressing. (I assume you don't plan to follow such stupid bodybuilding concepts as bodypart-split routines in which legs are worked only once a week.)
_________________
Thomas Kurz
Madrej glowie dosc dwie slowie
I hope this finds you well.
Best regards,
Cindy
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gilhapkido
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Aug 28, 2007 04:40
Thanks for your reply Cindy,
I found your information from Kurz's book very interesting and I think that this will answer most of my Qs.
As I understand, the tape 'secrets of stretching' is not enough, and the book have many additional information that can't be found in the tape.
You wrote:
This implies that it takes more than static flexibility to do the splits without warmup primarily because static flexibility does not develop the POSITION SPECIFIC strength necessary for the task.
So the position specific strength is the key for splits without warmup?
When I enable to do the split after a warmup, I can get to a standing position with just using the adductor strength, so I assume that my position specific strength is enough, but still I can't do the split without warmup.
As for the horse riding stance, I'm lowering the hips with weights as showed in the tape.
I will take your suggestion in the last paragraph.
Thanks for your patience and helpful info
Gil
I found your information from Kurz's book very interesting and I think that this will answer most of my Qs.
As I understand, the tape 'secrets of stretching' is not enough, and the book have many additional information that can't be found in the tape.
You wrote:
This implies that it takes more than static flexibility to do the splits without warmup primarily because static flexibility does not develop the POSITION SPECIFIC strength necessary for the task.
So the position specific strength is the key for splits without warmup?
When I enable to do the split after a warmup, I can get to a standing position with just using the adductor strength, so I assume that my position specific strength is enough, but still I can't do the split without warmup.
As for the horse riding stance, I'm lowering the hips with weights as showed in the tape.
I will take your suggestion in the last paragraph.
Thanks for your patience and helpful info
Gil
Gil,
Wow, you got me; what can I tell you? I have a question for you, since I haven't worked on Kurz' method as much as you have.
\\By the way, I feel like I'm doing a book report, earlier. I am still working on lead-up skills at this point and am nowhere near achieving splits-without-warm-up. Even so, I find the dynamic exercises do great things for my kicks in Tae Kwon Do class, but I am still a beginner. \\
My question for you is this: How often and how many sets of the dynamic leg raises to front, sides and back do you incorporate into your weekly workout schedule when you work on Kurz' program? Since you have great static flexibility, do you kick through full range of motion, starting lower to warm up and then achieving the splits in the air by your last set? That's how I'm assuming I should do it, stopping when I reach my maximum range of motion. What's your way?
Thanks,
Cindy
Wow, you got me; what can I tell you? I have a question for you, since I haven't worked on Kurz' method as much as you have.
\\By the way, I feel like I'm doing a book report, earlier. I am still working on lead-up skills at this point and am nowhere near achieving splits-without-warm-up. Even so, I find the dynamic exercises do great things for my kicks in Tae Kwon Do class, but I am still a beginner. \\
My question for you is this: How often and how many sets of the dynamic leg raises to front, sides and back do you incorporate into your weekly workout schedule when you work on Kurz' program? Since you have great static flexibility, do you kick through full range of motion, starting lower to warm up and then achieving the splits in the air by your last set? That's how I'm assuming I should do it, stopping when I reach my maximum range of motion. What's your way?
Thanks,
Cindy
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gilhapkido
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Aug 28, 2007 04:40
Hi Cindy,
You can do splits without warmup? Wow, I'm happy for you.
As an answer to your Qs:
1. Dynamic leg raises I do almost every day as part of the warmup and even if I don't work on Kurz's program. As I told you earlier, I have tried to do the leg raises also in the morning, but like in last time (a week ago), I get an ingury (this time my hamstrings).
2. Kicking through full range of motion - for front kicks, I do 5 second static stretch, and then I can kick to almost full range of motion (my knee touching the shoulder in front leg raise), then I do a set or two of 15. For side kicks (side, roundhouse, etc...), I can kick to head level without warmup, so I begin with that level (not lower).
What I do is more or less what you do and it is similar to Kurz's method like in the type.
Gil
You can do splits without warmup? Wow, I'm happy for you.
As an answer to your Qs:
1. Dynamic leg raises I do almost every day as part of the warmup and even if I don't work on Kurz's program. As I told you earlier, I have tried to do the leg raises also in the morning, but like in last time (a week ago), I get an ingury (this time my hamstrings).
2. Kicking through full range of motion - for front kicks, I do 5 second static stretch, and then I can kick to almost full range of motion (my knee touching the shoulder in front leg raise), then I do a set or two of 15. For side kicks (side, roundhouse, etc...), I can kick to head level without warmup, so I begin with that level (not lower).
What I do is more or less what you do and it is similar to Kurz's method like in the type.
Gil
Gil,
First of all, no, I cannot do splits without warmup yet. I'm a beginner. I wish Kurz would just step in here and give you your answer because his experience with the training is much closer to yours than is mine, but I'll give it my best shot.
You wrote:
In Kurz' article five (5), http://www.stretching.info/column_stretch5.html , he writes:
Best regards,
Cindy
First of all, no, I cannot do splits without warmup yet. I'm a beginner. I wish Kurz would just step in here and give you your answer because his experience with the training is much closer to yours than is mine, but I'll give it my best shot.
You wrote:
andI have tried to do the leg raises also in the morning, but like in last time (a week ago), I get an ingury (this time my hamstrings).
Kicking through full range of motion - for front kicks, I do 5 second static stretch, and then I can kick to almost full range of motion (my knee touching the shoulder in front leg raise), then I do a set or two of 15. For side kicks (side, roundhouse, etc...), I can kick to head level without warmup, so I begin with that level (not lower).
In Kurz' article five (5), http://www.stretching.info/column_stretch5.html , he writes:
I think that in your Morning dynamic stretches, you need to (1) back off and let your limbs gradually warm up, starting with lower, slower kicks in your first sets and, (2) Never, ever precede your morning dynamic stretches with any sort of static stretch. Rather, just loosen the joints, get the heart pumping with a little light aerobic, then do the dynamic stretches, starting with lower kicks and ending high only when your legs are ready for it. Worth a try?If you rely on high kicks as your combat techniques and want to do them anytime without warm-up, you should do dynamic stretches twice a day. Research has shown the effectiveness of dynamic stretching twice every day (Matveev 1977). First spend a few minutes in the morning (before having your breakfast) on the dynamic stretching of your legs and then later during the day do dynamic stretches again. On days you have your workout, do these dynamic stretches in the warm-up before kicking. Starting slowly, you should gradually raise the legs higher, and then you should increase the speed of your movements. Doing the actual combat kicks in this morning stretch is not necessary to be able to do them later in the day without a warm-up.
Best regards,
Cindy
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gilhapkido
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Aug 28, 2007 04:40
Hello Cindy,
I remember the qoute you gave from article # 5, but it seems I didn't pay attention to details (my English).
Second, when I have discovered the genius method of Mr. Kurtz, I was quite flexible (able to do front split, but problems with side split, no problems with kicking). I think that because I use to kick high, I didn't give much importance to start the stretches low and slow. It is funny because I always tell my students to start low and slow when we do the leg raises.
I will try to begin the leg raises stretches more easy and carefully next time I integrate it to my routine. But first I have to rehabilitate my hamstrings and wait until it heal.
Thanks for drawing my attention (I hope I spelled it correctly) to details.
Gil
I remember the qoute you gave from article # 5, but it seems I didn't pay attention to details (my English).
Second, when I have discovered the genius method of Mr. Kurtz, I was quite flexible (able to do front split, but problems with side split, no problems with kicking). I think that because I use to kick high, I didn't give much importance to start the stretches low and slow. It is funny because I always tell my students to start low and slow when we do the leg raises.
I will try to begin the leg raises stretches more easy and carefully next time I integrate it to my routine. But first I have to rehabilitate my hamstrings and wait until it heal.
Thanks for drawing my attention (I hope I spelled it correctly) to details.
Gil