when to perform hard stretches

[cailifo]

i have read:

joint rotations- aerobic- static- dynamic- sports activity- dynamic- static

1) i generally follow this outline. but i'm wondering in this structure when should splits training be done?

2) also, if i'm not doing a sports related activity this time where should i place splits training? should it replace the sports activity? and then do i need the reverse order cool down as well?

3) if i want to work my hard dynamic stretching should i do the warm up ending with hard dynamic stretches? and then should i cool down with the light static again?

4) if i want to work on my hard static stretching should i do the warm up through the light dynamic and then do my hard static stretches? how do i cool down from there?

5) lastly, does martial arts training, including stances training and then isometric stretching qualify as strength training? or do i have to do weights or something else?


thank you very much!

[Tim...]

Hi.

First, I'm not sure I agree with your initial order of events. There seems little or no point doing the static stretches before your sport, since this is more likely to reduce coordination. It's better to do sports-specific dynamic stretches to get ready for your sport, rather than static stretches.

Also, you've done dynamic stretching, then your sport. It seems a little pointless to repeat the dynamic stretching, unless your sport makes you feel really tight.

So I will answer the questions, assuming that the following is your basic structure:

joint rotations- aerobic- dynamic- sports activity- static

1) The splits training (like isometrics) should be done before, or instead of your static stretches at the end.

2) If there is no sports, then do them in place of the sports activity.

3) I don't know what you mean by work hard on dynamic stuff. This is not ballistic, so there should be little in the way of effort. There should be no hard work involved. You dynamic work should always follow the same pattern. Swing in a light, controlled manner, gradually increasing the magnitude of the movement, until you see no further improvement. Hacking away for ages at your maximum is more likely to tighten you up than improve your dynamic flexibility.

4) It's the same as your normal pattern, but with the sports activity removed. As for cool down, I don't see this as necessary. Static stretches are in themselves a cool down. If you are relaxing into a stretch, your heart rate will not be exceptionally high, and you will only have a light sweat. There should be no strain or gnashing of teeth.

5) If you are naturally strong, and your training involves holding deep stances for a long time, you may not need additional strength training to get splits. That doesn't mean it isn't advisable, but it may not be necessary. If your stretching plateaus, work on increasing your strength using weights and/or bodyweight exercises. PNF does increase strength in the stretched position, but it is unlikely to increase strength as fast as weights. Weight training is a tool to assist you, not the holy grail.

Just mu thoughts.

Cheers

Tim...

[cailifo]

Hey, thanks a lot! After 150 some views and 0 replies I was almost losing hope.

I've studied your reply and will practice accordingly. I'll report back after a while.

One question though. It's good to stretch everyday. But how about splits stretching? I've read stretch lightly everyday and then do hard splits training once a week. I've also read every other day, or everyday if you are not overstretching.

What is your recommendation?

[Tim...]

Hi.

I try to do some splits stretching every day, but I play it by ear. This is my routine:

http://www.oracle-base.com/flexibility/splits/

Most people say using PNF every day is not a great idea, but it really depends on the intensity level. If you see a physiotherapist every day, they will use PNF every day, but the contractions will be really mild compared to the balls-to-the-wall style PNF most martial artists use.

I do some form of PNF every day, but some days I'm really going for it and others its really light. If you still don't like the idea of that, just do PNF splits stretching 2-3 times a week, and do static stretches for the other days.

Your body gets good at doing what it does regularly. If you do splits every day, it will find splits easier than if you do it once a week. Simple as that.

I suggest you start trying static splits stretches every day, then gradually start introducing PNF into the mix. If you are observant, you will find a level of effort that suits you on a day-to-day basis and you will avoid injury. If you blindly follow what others say yo will often end up injured and frustrated.

Cheers

Tim...

[CrazyBoy]

Hi!

About doing splits everyday: long time before I did them everyday, with no result whatsoever. Even more, I injured my muscles constatly. Now I do splits once in a while, once two weeks and I find that my flexibility isn't reduced. Of course, it all depends on your current level of conditioning. But even so, you are sure of injuring yourself.

Osu!

[Tim...]

Hi.

It's all a question of intensity and knowing your own body. I never do more than I can cope with. If I'm feeling bad one day I don't push it too hard. Today I felt good, so I did oversplit training on my side splits.

There is no reason to injure yourself if you stretch once a day, or five times a day. Stretching isn't weight training, it's learning to control your nervous system. I never get tired or sore from stretching unless I've done something wrong.

Obviously, everybodies different, so once every two weeks may be enough for you. It's probably enough for me to maintain my current flexibility, but it's not enough for me to improve.

Cheers

Tim...

[cailifo]

Thanks, Tom. Your comments are very helpful.

I'm getting a set routine put together for my personal needs. Since I can't do the full splits yet, (not too far for front, a bit farther for side) I need to work stretching other muscles with different techniques.

But I noticed in your split routine, you do a number of sets. Usually, I've been doing all my stretches, dynamic, static, just with one set. I'll do the dynamics to reach my maximum which doesn't take very long, and then leave it with that one set. I'll then do other small static stretches for various parts getting ready for the splits stretching. When I get to that I usually hold it once on each side until it feels good and stretched as far as I can. At the most one minute probably.

So, it doesn't look like I do too much. And I also don't try to overdo any of the stretches. I do them all kind of relaxed. Yet by the next day, my hamstrings are really sore, which knocks me out for a couple days not allowing me to do my stretches everyday.

I wonder what I'm doing wrong or how to recover from this. I used to train martial arts all day everyday but have been out for about 9 months. (only training a little) I could do any stretches as long as I wanted and train for hours with excellent endurance and never felt sore. But now, its difficult to get back into the routine. Though I'm careful to not get in a hurry or overdo anything. So I'm confused. I just want to have a daily routine to work back up to it. But I get sore easily now it seems.

Also, as second question. I noticed in your routine, Tim, that you do side splits before front. Is that because you feel side splits are easier and it sets you up better for the front or some other reason? Is it just a personal preference or is it better to do one before the other?

Thanks a lot for your help here!

[Tim...]

Hi.

Just to make this clear, I'm not suggesting you copy my routine. I've read loads of different books on flexibility over the years and none of them suit me completely. I adapt everything to suit me, and even then modify my own thoughts daily. I'm just making a point.

Regarding reps and sets, there are multiple schools of thought from the single stretch held for ages, to the multiple reps. I find that several sets of shorter reps works better for me than a single long stretch. I find the results better and I can cope better with it mentally. I'm not saying this is the way it will be for you. I find if I come out of a stretch then g back into it, I instantly feel more flexible.

Too much is a relative term. If your legs are weak and you are holding your body weight for a minute, you may well be doing too much. If you are feeling sore the day after stretching, this implies you need better strength and conditioning.

I do side splits first because I enjoy them. A good side split stretch usually motivates me to continue an do front splits, which I dislike. If I were to do front splits first I would probably give up part way through. Just a personal preference.

Cheers

Tim...

[cailifo]

Hey Tim,

I've been taking it easy and doing my morning stretches lightly. I haven't had enough time to actually know if I've progressed. I'm just going slow and doing it every day. What I can say though is that it feels really good, and I'm not as sore as before.

The only problem I feel is on my side leg swings. I'm supposed to feel it in the groin area but I don't really. Because my hips feel kind of tight so I can't feel that inside stretch as much. But I can keep my foot horizontal and raise it up to my standing head height, it just feel tight on the outside.

As for the splits stretching, been taking it slower. Only holding for 30 seconds for a couple of reps and doing more conditioning. It feels nice. I'm not too far away from going full splits. But I'll just continue steadily until I get it. Side splits need more work but are getting lower too.

As soon as I achieve it, I'll post some pictures.

Thank you for your help!

[Tim...]

Cool!

Regarding side leg swings, make sure your pelvis is tilted properly. Normally, when you feel tightness on the outside of the hips it's because you've not tilted your pelvis forwards. Make sure the alignment is correct or you will injure yourself.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers

Tim...