Hindu Squats
Hindu Squats
I'd be interested in hearing others' opinions of Hindu Squats. I'm a 48 year old male and began doing Hindu Suats in May of this year. A few weeks later I developed severe pain deep inside my leg just below the knee on the outside of my left leg. Thinking I had a stress fracture I was x-rayed with no findings. I took a few months to recover and then gradually began to build back up by increasing my Hindu Squat reps and also jump roping. Three weeks ago the pain came back more severe than ever. Wednesday (two days ago) I went to see the best orthopedic sports medicine M.D. in our city - again x-rays with no findings. After explaining to him my workout routine - including Hindu Squats, he diagnosed the problem as swelling in the bursa sack below the knee, and he strongly cautioned me against doing any more Hindu Squats. Jump roping, running, Taekwondo, strength training and biking were all encouraged however. I was given several stretches to perform everday, and have already noticed some pain relief. Has anyone else had a similar problem with Hindu Squats? I likely won't ever do them again. Thanks.
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Guest
HS
Hi TKD!
I just want to say that stay away from HS, because they are dangerous for your knees! I was doing them religiously for one year. But I get a nasty injury (chondromalacia pattela) after doing them.
I know that for someone they are good and if you have good and healthy knees they are no worse than regular squats but if you have an old injury or sever pain these HS will make it even worse!
After injury I may do only weightless squats only about 1/3 of the motion and strictly paying attention on technique.
Keep on training, but healthy without injurys!
Greetings, Robi
I just want to say that stay away from HS, because they are dangerous for your knees! I was doing them religiously for one year. But I get a nasty injury (chondromalacia pattela) after doing them.
I know that for someone they are good and if you have good and healthy knees they are no worse than regular squats but if you have an old injury or sever pain these HS will make it even worse!
After injury I may do only weightless squats only about 1/3 of the motion and strictly paying attention on technique.
Keep on training, but healthy without injurys!
Greetings, Robi
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Guest
I would'nt discourage anyone from doing Hindu squats, as I think for the majority of people they are great.
But like any exercise, if they cause discomfort or don't agree with you - don't do them!
Also have you considered going to see an applied kinesiologist? Tom Kurz raves about them - although I have never been personally.
But like any exercise, if they cause discomfort or don't agree with you - don't do them!
Also have you considered going to see an applied kinesiologist? Tom Kurz raves about them - although I have never been personally.
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cutterboy
Come to think of it, they gave me problems recently as well. I was doing them while working and then, boom, my knees started bothering me. If I remember correctly Tom did them FOR his knees, i.e., these squats never bothered his knees. I guess it's up to the individual.
I like one legged squats without weights because you know each leg's strength and it improves your balance and I find it's good for the pelvis area.
I've been lucky with my knees. I find if they get "creaky" I do leg curls and extensions.
My sport is inline speed skating so I don't do the kicks, etc.
I like one legged squats without weights because you know each leg's strength and it improves your balance and I find it's good for the pelvis area.
I've been lucky with my knees. I find if they get "creaky" I do leg curls and extensions.
My sport is inline speed skating so I don't do the kicks, etc.
Hindu squats
After reading a number of positive articles about them I started having my students do them. So far there has been no discomfort from them. I am doing them to but have stayed at low reps so far. I have found if I get lazy and don't do them for a week or two and then I notice my knees feeling weak and creaky. If I start doing the Hindu squats again at low reps the knees start feeling better. Just my experience and it is for a limited time.
I am a 49 year old martial artist with 32 years & 5 black belts. I teach Tang Soo Do with a little Wado-ryu. Being 49 I can always use suggestions on training methods that work for my age without overdoing it.
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health king
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- Location: Canada
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Kit
Toes over the knees
Does anyone have or know any good links/info on scientific evidence/research on whether squatting and allowing your knees to go over your toes (as in Hindu squats) is dangeroud for the knees or not?
It seems to be an area that there are a lot of different 'opinions'...what does the research reveal?
It seems to be an area that there are a lot of different 'opinions'...what does the research reveal?
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UKfightfreak
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Dec 13, 2003 06:58
- Location: Birmingham, England
- Contact:
Re: Toes over the knees
I spent a little time researching this subject and basically there is a big knowledge gap on the approach to training, most of it comes from reading a little and making the wrong assumptions.Kit wrote:Does anyone have or know any good links/info on scientific evidence/research on whether squatting and allowing your knees to go over your toes (as in Hindu squats) is dangeroud for the knees or not?
It seems to be an area that there are a lot of different 'opinions'...what does the research reveal?
Hindu squats are a good one, I have never seen anyone have a problem with them when correct form is used - I don't know about individuals here but if you bounce on your ankles or your ham strings bounce off your calves, this will probably in the long term over 100's and 1000's of these squats likley to cause damage. Even the biggest advocator Matt Furey states that there should be no bounce and the movement be fluid.
Its also the same as deep knee squats with weights - you will hear of knee problems caused by them - but the people won't tell you that they did not strenthen their knees enough before doing heavy squatting - for all doing weighted squats now, do you know Kurz recommends being able to do 100 hindu squats before commencing?
From what I have seen so many people are scared of their knees having problems and listen to all sorts of un-qualified advice - and end up doing things to protect their knees which in the long term end up hurting them.
Sadly I could find no direct evidence for Hindu squats, I did find some referring to deep knee squats being good for you (besides Kurz column) and a lot of evidence stating that there are a lot of myths about deep knee exercises. This I believe is due to the fact if you tell a person to make up their own mind between deep knee vs say 90 degree squats - they will say 90 degree every time! It's loads easier!! This is why so many of the great compound (and difficult) exercises are dropped by physical trainers as their clients think that doing a few barbell curls and tricep pushdowns it the way to go as its loads easier than chin ups and dips.
My advice, just because its difficult doesn't mean its bad for you! (just try and do handstand press ups for your triceps and shoulder - better than dumbell flies anyday!)
Matt
If you always done what you always did, you will always get what you always got.
If you always done what you always did, you will always get what you always got.
Thanks for you reply
Thanks for your reply and the effort you put into lloking for information. I agree with what you say. It seems to me that due to the overall reduction in fitness levels in society, a number of useful exercises have been labelled as unsafe or left out, simply because they are unsafe or difficult to those who have sat around at home and not exercised for years. As a result trainers etc. label them as 'unsafe' whereas to a person who is active and has put in the effort to build their level of fitness and strength up gradually, certain exercises fit well into their training regimine.
Does anyone else have any info on research into whether the knees over the feet in squats (such as Hindu) is dangerous or not?
Does anyone else have any info on research into whether the knees over the feet in squats (such as Hindu) is dangerous or not?
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Thomas Kurz
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Dec 03, 2003 08:04
In the squat, the more perpendicular to the floor (or vertical) your shins are, the less force acts on your knees but your trunk leans forward more and the greater are the shear forces acting on your lower back. Between the knees-not-past-the-toes squat and the knees-past-the-toes squat the difference in knee torque is about one-third but the difference in hip (and thus lower back) torque is about ten-fold.
References:
Fry, A. C., J. Chadwick Smith, and B. K. Schilling. 2003. Effect of Knee Position on Hip and Knee Torques During the Barbell Squat. The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research vol. 17, no. 4 (November 2003), pp. 629-633.
N.S.C.A. Position Paper “The Squat Exercise in Athletic Conditioning: A Position Statement and Review of the Literature” in National Strength and Conditioning Association Journal vol.13, no. 5, pp. 51-58.
References:
Fry, A. C., J. Chadwick Smith, and B. K. Schilling. 2003. Effect of Knee Position on Hip and Knee Torques During the Barbell Squat. The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research vol. 17, no. 4 (November 2003), pp. 629-633.
N.S.C.A. Position Paper “The Squat Exercise in Athletic Conditioning: A Position Statement and Review of the Literature” in National Strength and Conditioning Association Journal vol.13, no. 5, pp. 51-58.
Thomas Kurz
Madrej glowie dosc dwie slowie
Madrej glowie dosc dwie slowie
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Ramesh
Knee problems and squats
Before we come to knees, let me tell you one thing as a fact about your back:
I totally agree with Mr. Kurz. I say this from first hand experience.
The more inwardly withdrawn are your knees from your toes while doing the squats (especially with 90 kgs of iron on your shoulders), if not now, sooner or later, your back is going to get screwed up. Even if you don't load up with weights, your lower back will still get sore, unless of course your upper half of your body is abnormaly way longer than your lower half
Now, about knees.
I weigh about 84 kgs. I've had recurring knee problems in the past. I wrote in and got the following reply from Mr. Kurz.
> Dear Mr. Kurz,
>
> A few questions here:
> I have been trying to do squats as you've mentioned in your articles
> and the reference you cited, Super-Squats. Of late I have developed
> some pain right at the center of my right knee. I don't do any other
> forms of exercise but only weight training. I do not use knee wrappers
> and I always squat till my thighs get to be parallel to the floor.
Answer: Dear Sir,
I do not pay any attention to the “thighs parallel to the floor” business. I just
squat as it suits me and I think you can do the same.
> You stress on avoiding lateral
> rotation of the knees; what does that mean?
Answer: It means not twisting them.
> I did notice recently that I
> stick my knees forward beyond my feet. I am having difficulty getting
> to keep my knees behind as my thighs and lower legs are
> disproportionately longer than my upper body.
Answer: I do not see a problem. I stick my knees way ahead of my toes.
> Do you have any suggestions on how I should work
> around this and still not loose out on benefiting from heavy squats as
> I've wonderfully experienced in only a short while of doing them.
Answer: Make sure you prepare for heavy squats by starting with no weights and
progress to heavy weights very gradually over several months. When you arrive at some
substantial weights--for example, close to the weight of your body--end your strength
workout with long sets of light weight or no weight squats. Read my column.
Ever since then, I've tried experimenting with a number of things for about six months now and things seem all right thus far.
1. As Mr. Kurz has said in his latest response, I've been spreading my legs really wide for the squats i.e. keeping my knees as far apart as possible. I then go all the way down. Note that the muscles which get more worked here would be your adductors and outer quadriceps. (This may be a shortcoming for those who want to work specifically on their central quadriceps by getting on a narrower stance). Refer to 'Strength Training Anatomy' - by Frederic Delavier for a nice illustration of the muscles worked during a power squat and the effect of different stances.
2. I pay very close attention to -NOT- lock my knees when I am fully up standing, from a squat. The knees should stay slightly bent.
I think this applies more for heavy weights bearing squats but I practice it for free squats as well.
3. I've reverted back to lighter load - 30 kgs. I am going to stick with this until I am confident enough to move on with heavier loads.
4. I have completely eliminated jerking up-from or down-into a squat - not even the tiniest jerk. The movement should be controlled, smooth and fluid.
5. I am not sure of this but I think I read this in Mr. Kurz's article (or was it his book?). I take a lot of pottasium from natural sources. This is supposed to reduce the creaking/cracking sound in your joints.
Hope this helps. Always listen to your body. If it's not comfortable, you're not doing it right. Happy squatting.
I totally agree with Mr. Kurz. I say this from first hand experience.
The more inwardly withdrawn are your knees from your toes while doing the squats (especially with 90 kgs of iron on your shoulders), if not now, sooner or later, your back is going to get screwed up. Even if you don't load up with weights, your lower back will still get sore, unless of course your upper half of your body is abnormaly way longer than your lower half
Now, about knees.
I weigh about 84 kgs. I've had recurring knee problems in the past. I wrote in and got the following reply from Mr. Kurz.
> Dear Mr. Kurz,
>
> A few questions here:
> I have been trying to do squats as you've mentioned in your articles
> and the reference you cited, Super-Squats. Of late I have developed
> some pain right at the center of my right knee. I don't do any other
> forms of exercise but only weight training. I do not use knee wrappers
> and I always squat till my thighs get to be parallel to the floor.
Answer: Dear Sir,
I do not pay any attention to the “thighs parallel to the floor” business. I just
squat as it suits me and I think you can do the same.
> You stress on avoiding lateral
> rotation of the knees; what does that mean?
Answer: It means not twisting them.
> I did notice recently that I
> stick my knees forward beyond my feet. I am having difficulty getting
> to keep my knees behind as my thighs and lower legs are
> disproportionately longer than my upper body.
Answer: I do not see a problem. I stick my knees way ahead of my toes.
> Do you have any suggestions on how I should work
> around this and still not loose out on benefiting from heavy squats as
> I've wonderfully experienced in only a short while of doing them.
Answer: Make sure you prepare for heavy squats by starting with no weights and
progress to heavy weights very gradually over several months. When you arrive at some
substantial weights--for example, close to the weight of your body--end your strength
workout with long sets of light weight or no weight squats. Read my column.
Ever since then, I've tried experimenting with a number of things for about six months now and things seem all right thus far.
1. As Mr. Kurz has said in his latest response, I've been spreading my legs really wide for the squats i.e. keeping my knees as far apart as possible. I then go all the way down. Note that the muscles which get more worked here would be your adductors and outer quadriceps. (This may be a shortcoming for those who want to work specifically on their central quadriceps by getting on a narrower stance). Refer to 'Strength Training Anatomy' - by Frederic Delavier for a nice illustration of the muscles worked during a power squat and the effect of different stances.
2. I pay very close attention to -NOT- lock my knees when I am fully up standing, from a squat. The knees should stay slightly bent.
I think this applies more for heavy weights bearing squats but I practice it for free squats as well.
3. I've reverted back to lighter load - 30 kgs. I am going to stick with this until I am confident enough to move on with heavier loads.
4. I have completely eliminated jerking up-from or down-into a squat - not even the tiniest jerk. The movement should be controlled, smooth and fluid.
5. I am not sure of this but I think I read this in Mr. Kurz's article (or was it his book?). I take a lot of pottasium from natural sources. This is supposed to reduce the creaking/cracking sound in your joints.
Hope this helps. Always listen to your body. If it's not comfortable, you're not doing it right. Happy squatting.
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Ramesh
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Guest
Hindu squats
I was wondering if anyone could explain to me exactly how to perform a hindu squat, I have read alot about tham but have never actually known how to perform them, thanks Bobby