Front split rear knee pain

[StevenT]

Hello,

I have the book Stretching Scientifically, and the video High Kicks With No Warm-Up. Prior to purchasing these materials, I had bought Beyond Stretching by Pavel Tsatsouline. His advice seemed very similar to Mr. Kurtz's, with the exception of the front split. He advocated placing the rear knee flat upon the ground (I put a yoga mat under it), so that the pressure of the contraction fell upon the area just above the patella (when the leg was straight, the kneecap would be pushed slightly downward on the leg, toward the toes). In this position, I do not feel any particular pain in the rear knee.
I prefer the Kurtz position, as shown on page 76 (that is, with the rear leg rotated away from the body, and the side of the knee contacting the floor, the kneecap being pushed slightly sideways if the leg is flat), as it is much closer to an actual side or roundhouse kick. However, when I attempt it, I am forced to stop because of excruciating pain in the rear knee. I have tried removing the padding, using less of a cushion, and more of a cushion, but the problem remains.
My knees are not usually problematic, as as far as strength is concerned, I am able to perform 7 consecutive butt-to-floor one-legged squats (other leg held at a ninety-degree angle) with either leg.
I also do not think it is related to training load, as I have experimented with varying levels of fatigue (from none to near-overtraining). I follow the exact training regimen that is described in Stretching Scientifically on page 64. What am I doing wrong? And if I am unable for some reason to use the Kurtz position, will Mr. Tsatsouline's position work with Mr. Kurtz's method?
I am currently about two-three inches from the floor in Tsatsouline's position. In Mr. Kurtz's, I am slightly lower (perhaps one inch), but as I noted, I cannot hold the position long.
As far as my side split, which I am also working on, it is much less developed. I would say I am about 18 inches from the floor, with legs straight.
Thank you very much for your help.

Sincerely,

Steven Turner

[dragon]

However, when I attempt it, I am forced to stop because of excruciating pain in the rear knee. I have tried removing the padding, using less of a cushion, and more of a cushion, but the problem remains.

In the Tsatsouline method,you start in a deep lunge to stretch the hip flexors.After time you straighten the lead leg,keep your hips square,lower yourself further,etc.Eventually you will be in a full split,rear knee/thigh touching the floor.
However,the martial arts split(rear foot turned sideways) starts with the rear leg straight throughout.You only go as deep as you can(much the same as a side split).Therefore,you should need no padding for the knee at all when practicing this stretch as the knee should never touch the floor until you are in a full split.(1 inch off the floor like you say you are would be classed as a full split.However,you wasn't clear about whether you had your knee touching the floor when practicing this stretch from a greater height).

I am able to perform 7 consecutive butt-to-floor one-legged squats (other leg held at a ninety-degree angle) with either leg. Steven Turner

Without seeing your technique it is hard to measure whether your knees are healthy just from this exercise alone.I have seen people do full depth pistol squats but they have had terrible,possibly damaging technique.

And if I am unable for some reason to use the Kurtz position, will Mr. Tsatsouline's position work with Mr. Kurtz's method?Steven Turner

As you said,the method of training/stretching order is very similar between the Kurz/Tsatsouline methods.Which front stretch you choose is your choice.

As far as my side split, which I am also working on, it is much less developed. I would say I am about 18 inches from the floor, with legs straight.

The martial arts split rear leg and the position of the legs during side split are pretty much the same.Even though the front split is usually easier than the side split, there seems to be quite a difference between your front split(1 inch from the ground) and your side split(18 inches from the ground).

From everything you've said,the problem may be not locking out your rear leg(as Tsatsouline suggests in one of his other books when describing the martial arts split).This could place a lot of pressure on the knee,as you would be bending it outwards.

Dragon.

[StevenT]

That is a very clear and helpful answer. Thanks very much. I can see how not straightening my rear leg is the cause of my trouble. I'll change it immediately. Thanks again.

Sincerely,

Steven Turner