Anybody here achieved splits within 2 m using Kurz's method

[Guest]

Anybody here achieved splits within 2 months using Kurz's Methods?

[ungar60]

i didn't manage to do so

[Martin]

No splits. Furthermore, I don't see that much improvement with high kicks for maritial arts though I religously follow dynamic kicking to the front, side, back 12 reps each, sometimes twice a day.

I'm wondering what the relationship is between static (splits practice), if any, and dynamic stretching?

P.S. I have bought all Kurz and his friends' videos/dvds related to this area and they are well studied. All in all a disappointment in results.

[Guest]

Its interesting that you havent seen much improvement. I am assuming you have done the strength exercises as well. I havent folowed Kurz religiously but have seen more improvement in the last 6 months than in my 8 years stretching with my club (static as part of the warm up)

What do you mean is there a replationship between static and dynamic

[Martin]

What I meant was do static stretching increases lead to higher dynamic leg lifts and ultimately higher kicks?

At present, I alternate relaxed stretching days with isometric stretching days. I do isometric stretches only on days of strength or speed workouts (per Kurz): I follow the Kurz pattern of workouts: technique, speed, strength, aerobic (in my case anaerobic interval training) active rest, rest.

And yes, I followed Kurz's strength buildup exercises, prior to iso stretch training.

I am not saying Kurz' methods don't work for some, I'm saying, they haven't shown me much. For now, I follow Kurz because his methods are rational and, with moderation, will not lead to injuries and may prevent some. But I feel there are major things missing from Kurz's program for me as far as developing high kicks and I would guess I am not alone.

[dragon]

Hi,
My opinion of stretching is that it's like body building:-Everyone agrees what exercises should be performed but how they are performed is up to the individual.Some bodybuilders use high intensity one set training such as Dorian Yates,others use multi sets such as Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Both achieved impressive results with their own routines which lead them both on to win Olympia titles.
This proves to me that nothing is set in stone.

I believe experimentation is needed and a constant search for knowledge on the subject of stretching.While i agree with Kurz' methods and have had great results myself,it doesn't mean i wouldn't listen to someone elses theories too.

If you believe something is amiss from your training then look around.I found Pavel Tsatsoulines books to be beneficial to me.They are a little pricey for the same kind of information but it does look at the theory/technique of stretching from a different angle which helped when i hit a plateau.

Dragon

[UKfightfreak]

No splits. Furthermore, I don't see that much improvement with high kicks for maritial arts though I religously follow dynamic kicking to the front, side, back 12 reps each, sometimes twice a day.

I'm wondering what the relationship is between static (splits practice), if any, and dynamic stretching?

P.S. I have bought all Kurz and his friends' videos/dvds related to this area and they are well studied. All in all a disappointment in results.

There can be many reasons why the method isn't working, you could be: * doing the exercises incorrectly
* Overtraining i.e. too many classes/workouts or the right amount done in the wrong order.
* Chronically unfit (although even unconditioned individuals tend to see an improvement in dynamic flexibility)
* If you are only doing 12 reps you may need to increase your sets to 3 or even 5 to reach a higher level.

Try doing 12 reps of 3 sets each way of dynamic stretches to begin, if this doesn't work, increase the reps one week, decrease the next to see which gets you better results.

Also do you meet the criteria for isomtric stretches i.e. being able to lift your bodyweight in a squat easily for 10 reps? As well as the twice your bodyweight in a deadlift? As it may just be a case of you being very weak or being very strong but not taking your exercises through the full range of motion.

There could be another million reasons why the programme is not working for you.

[Martin]

I've varied the sets before on dynamic lifts, I'll try again 3 x 12 as you suggest and go from there, up to 5 sets (which seems like overkill to me) and down to 1 set if need be. For what it's worth, I reached the Kurz strength levels you mention long ago and quit adding weight because it reduced my flexibility.

While I respect your comments and suggestions on the "causes" for my lack of improvement (namely one or the other of my own deficits), let's not be close minded and overlook another possibility: Kurz's methods, themselves, are deficient for some individuals. Frankly, I don't see an overwhelming number of success stories using exclusively Kurz's methods even on this website.

But I will hold final judgment until I've tried everything. After all, I've made an investment in all his products. I want them to work for crying out loud.

[UKfightfreak]

Martin

I'm suprised that you are so strong, but still struggling. The reason why I am suprised is because the method is based upon elongating the muscles to make them more flexible.

Do you do deep lunges to the front and side in your routines? Along side the adductor pull downs?

[Martin]

With weight? No. Presently body weight only front and side lunges. Might add weight to the lunges on strength days per your suggestion, might not. I hate to add more of what has not worked for me. but my mind is open I've been doing adductor pull downs and leg curls with weight per Kurz's program on strength days.

I begin most days per week with with Pavel Tsatsouline's joint rotations in Relax into Stretch, Super Joints, Resilient, then follow the Kurz protocol on into various type workouts.

As of today, I'm adding new vinyasa yoga routines ala baronbaptiste.com. I don't know how to characterize yoga as flexibility, strength, mobility or all three. Guess I'll wait to see how I feel 48 hrs after. The advantage I see with yoga is more planes of motion are worked through than with Kurz, Tsatsouline, or other gurus. This may be what's been missing for me. I'm only interested in what works for me.

[Guest]

martin

I by all means am not a Kurz's chearleader like alot of people on this board appear to be. That said his method did work for me, not once but twice. It help me achieve full spilts to the front and side in my early twenties, then again after, get this 10+years off from training(school, work wife...life got in the way) in my thirties. Both time it took longer than 2 mos....more like a year give or take a few months. I find that deep squats with about 250 work good for me to help develop the strengh need. Also I have never been able to do the splits cold...never.

[MikeMartial]

Martin,

I'm curious also as to your lack of gains in flexibility. A few questions:

1) What was your level of flexibility before starting with dynamic stretching and isometrics?

2) Could you kick head height prior to starting?

3) What is your current weight, height, and level of fitness?

I really fail to see anything missing from Kurz's regime. Stretching Scientifically bascially covers pretty much every area of flexibility, even better than Brad Appleton's essay on flexibility, IMO.

Now, with saying that, I'm not even close to doing a full split. But just the dynamic stretching alone has shot my kicking height through the roof. And that was prior to returning to weight training.

I do think there's a plateau one can reach in regards to flexibility---in my case I'm there now. If you are already very flexible, able to kick head height with ease, chances are only isometrics will get you a full split.[/i]

[Maxout]

When I started to work out with Tom's course I was playing soccer and wasn't able to get much improvement in my flexibiltity regarding sidesplit. But I managed to get down to full frontsplit. After the season i was somewhere near 30-35 cm from a full sidesplit. I concentrated on building my strength for two month before I started isometrics. Within two months I was able to do full sidesplit.

My experience leads me to believe that you have to work the strength high enough to gain full benifit of isometrics. Specially concerning adductors because of the big leverage disadvantage.

Try to measure your strength gains so you always know that you getting stronger and be sure to always work in the right position. Else it's possible that you ain't in your most flexible position before it starts hurting and thus you aint working your way to flexibility, just to sore muscles. And don't over do it, muscles needs to rest between workouts. Do just two strength workouts for adductors with heavy weights a week and be sure to move in the joints full range and then do your isometrics.

Like in all strength training you have to really concentrate on the muscle you are working, that includes isometrics to.

Read Tom's book a couple of times and you'll see the solution is there, you might just have missed it the first time.

Stretch on

Maxout

[jrlefty]

I was able to achieve it in three months. But, I was using bodybuilding supplements like creatine, androbolics, glutamine, and protein powder with my strength training and was training like a bodybuilder because that was the only way I was taught.

Also, to get my split I had to do an hour martial arts training followed with some strength endurance and isometrics for about 20 minutes in order for me to get down into the split. But I thought that this was the best I could get and stoped training for the split.

The problem now is that after I stop taking the supplements and doing isometrics my split goes away, so it tells me that I have to train more for gaining strength rather than slapping on more plates onto the bar.

[dragon]

I would imagine that's quite unusual.
Isometrics help you to "trick" your mind into believing the work load is harder than it really is(through tension) so that when you relax your legs can slide out further.If you already achieved the splits i can't see why your body would lose this relaxation/flexibility just because you stopped doing weights/isometrics(unless you stopped stretching altogether).
It would take you longer,but relaxed stretches should allow you to do the splits too.

It may be pschological:-creatine,pro-hormones,and protien aren't miracle pills.I'm sure your gains were more to do with hard work.

Dragon