Full 180 sitting....but not when standing...whats wrong?

[korcan]

Hi all,

I have a problem that I haven't been able to figure out...hoping someone here has some insite into my dillema.

I have full side/front flexibility when stretching from a sitting position.... but when i apply a side kick from a standing position, i cannot attain 180 degrees...more like 140. Front kicks are not a problem.

It occurred to me while doing standing side stretches that maybe I am not placing enough stretching emphasis on the lower back (rib) area...as it starts to cramp up when I push it beyond 140 degrees. I wonder if this is what is preventing me from obtaining full 180 side kicks.

Has anyone experienced this before?

Ron

[dragon]

I have full side/front flexibility when stretching from a sitting position.... but when i apply a side kick from a standing position, i cannot attain 180 degrees...more like 140.

Do you mean when you actually try to throw a side kick or when you stretch in a side kick position(foot on a higher object)?
I think to throw a 180 degree side kick requires more than flexibility alone.Performing the splits on it's side(basically what a 180 degree side kick is) is harder than seated or conventional side splits is harder due to gravity.You need the power to drive your leg upwards,not outwards.
To be honest,i haven't seen many martial artists who can do this.Even the one's who can do the splits(including myself).

It occurred to me while doing standing side stretches that maybe I am not placing enough stretching emphasis on the lower back (rib) area...as it starts to cramp up when I push it beyond 140 degrees. I wonder if this is what is preventing me from obtaining full 180 side kicks.

If you are trying to keep your torso upright then yes,it will affect the hieght of the kick.
When you perform the splits your body is symmetrical(body in the middle,legs spread evenly either side).If you want to throw a 180 degree side split the same body position is needed so you need to lean back more.

Dragon.

[korcan]

Do you mean when you actually try to throw a side kick or when you stretch in a side kick position(foot on a higher object)?

Thanks for your reply. Yes...both of the above.

If you are trying to keep your torso upright then yes,it will affect the hieght of the kick. When you perform the splits your body is symmetrical (body in the middle,legs spread evenly either side). If you want to throw a 180 degree side split the same body position is needed so you need to lean back more.

Yes...i agree. I don't try to keep the torso upright...i do bend so that the torso is approx. parallel to the ground. I do try to keep the torso/hips in line with the extended leg, as apposed to tilting the hips forward (ie-japanese style side kick)

I did receive an email from the list that may have answered the question i asked but not necessarily the solution yet.
I've posted a bit of that reply below:

The way of doing high kicks that is shown on the DVD "Power High
Kicks with No Warm-Up!" does not require a flexible lower back. In
all high kicks the lower back (the whole trunk, actually) does not
bend or twist much, if at all. It just moves together with your
pelvis so if it leans one way or the other, it is mainly through
mobility of your hip joints. When I kick, my trunk is like one
block that moves as a rigid unit. You can see it on a video at
http://www.stadion.com/author_kurz.html . This is the way of
kicking I have learned from Mac, the author of "Power High Kicks
with No Warm-Up!" You can also see how Mac kicks in a short trailer
of his DVD that can be downloaded from
http://www.stadion.com/power.html .

Increasing flexibility of your hips for kicking also doesn't have
to involve flexing of your lower back. You will see that on the DVD
"Secrets of Stretching" ( http://www.stadion.com/secrets.html ).

Glad to hear lower back flexibility is not an issue...I'm thinking that I may have thrown people off with that term. The cramping usually starts at the upper hip/lower rib area...and will extend slightly into the lower kidney/back area. Hope that makes it a bit more clearer.

I find it peculiar that I can sit down...spread my legs to approx 180 degrees...tilt the hips and lean forward so that no only can my chest hit the floor...but my navel area as well. This kinda makes me think that i should be able to throw a higher side kick than i"m presently capable of.

This really isn't a big issue with me, as I'm generally very happy with my flexibilty. I had studied Martial Arts for decades, and can throw most kicks in the 6 foot height range....but i get the feeling I'm neglecting something simple here....and it woud be nice to solve this mystery

BTW...i do have both videos above on VHS that I havent watched in a long time...gonna find a working player and review them again...

[dragon]

With that much flexibility i'd say you need to work on strength more.Being flexible doesn't have to translate into high powerful kicks.

The bungee drills shown on the power high kicks video will be beneficial.

Dragon.

[Thomas Kurz]

The cramping usually starts at the upper hip/lower rib area...and will extend slightly into the lower kidney/back area. Hope that makes it a bit more clearer.

Try standing side bends, suitcase lift, floor side bends, and side bends on a back extension bench.

[korcan]

The cramping usually starts at the upper hip/lower rib area...and will extend slightly into the lower kidney/back area. Hope that makes it a bit more clearer.

Try standing side bends, suitcase lift, floor side bends, and side bends on a back extension bench.

Thanks Thomas for your reply...I'm now beginning to suspect that this was my problem all along...neglecting side flexibility.

I can see/feel it when i throw a standing side kick...i have to lean way back when i throw it...and cannot acheve a near 90 bend between torso and kicking leg as i see so many do.

I also notice that when i do a sitting side stretch...i can open 180...lean forward and get the chest to the ground...but CANNOT move my torso much to either side as shown in the videos...i think this one is gonna help a lot.

Will work on your suggested exercises...

And thanks to Dragon for your advice...after rewatching both videos...i realise i am neglecting the strength aspect as well.

Again...Thanks to both of you.