tilting pelvis for side split

[speedninja]

while stretching today I was thinking about this topic of tilting the pelvis forward to achieve side splits, even though I am a foot away from the ground. Then like Einstein and the falling apple the problem revealed itself. Yes my pelvic alignment is wrong and trying to stretch this way Im never going to get there.
When i slide out into side splits i slide my legs out and when the tension comes on I lean forward and place my hands on the ground underneath my shoulders to ease the load. This was how we stretched in Martial Art classes. This causes my hips to be behind my heels.
I found that by lifting up off my hands, straightning my body and pulling my hips in line with my heels and then slightly arching my back to bring my shoulders in line with with heels and hips, that my hips felt looser. Although i didnt drop any further it kind of felt more comfortable.
Also trying to mimic this body position in side leg raises felt better and was noticably higher.
Can anyone tell me if this is right or not, if not can someone please explain how to tilt the pelvis forward for myself and others who cannot reach the side splits. Thanks.

[dragon]

Then like Einstein and the falling apple the problem revealed itself.

Ha ha.That was Sir Isaac Newton.

When i slide out into side splits i slide my legs out and when the tension comes on I lean forward and place my hands on the ground underneath my shoulders to ease the load. This was how we stretched in Martial Art classes. This causes my hips to be behind my heels..

This is how i first learned to do the splits.From that position i concentrated on pushing my hips forwards.

I found that by lifting up off my hands, straightning my body and pulling my hips in line with my heels and then slightly arching my back to bring my shoulders in line with with heels and hips, that my hips felt looser. Although i didnt drop any further it kind of felt more comfortable.
Also trying to mimic this body position in side leg raises felt better and was noticably higher.
Can anyone tell me if this is right or not, if not can someone please explain how to tilt the pelvis forward for myself and others who cannot reach the side splits. Thanks.

The best way to describe tilting your pelvis forwards is sticking your butt out whilst trying to keep the rest of your body the same.

The article here shows correct alignment from the side:-

http://www.stadion.com/column_stretch2.html


Dragon.

[speedninja]

Thanks Dragon yes reading the information on the link you provided appears to make sense now, having read it before and also in the book stretching scientifically I never fully understood the concept until experimenting with it while stretching. hopefully now ill have less soreness after stretching and make some gains.

[dragon]

When i slide out into side splits i slide my legs out and when the tension comes on I lean forward and place my hands on the ground underneath my shoulders to ease the load. This was how we stretched in Martial Art classes. This causes my hips to be behind my heels.
I found that by lifting up off my hands, straightning my body and pulling my hips in line with my heels and then slightly arching my back to bring my shoulders in line with with heels and hips, that my hips felt looser. Although i didnt drop any further it kind of felt more comfortable.

Just re-read this part of your original post.
Ok,this is going to be real hard to explain.....

If someone took a photo of you in the above position(slide out into the splits,hands on the ground) and turned it on its side,you would look like you are in a seated groin stretch.(hope i've explained that so you can understand what i'm talking about).
If from this position(seated groin stretch) you tried to lean back i'm sure you can imagine the pain you could get in your lower back,glutes,and hip flexors.
Well,this is basically what you are trying to do when you try to "sit up" and straighten your body from the type of side split you are performing.

My advice:-

Either re-start your side split practice adopting the correct body position(the horse riding stance practice helps you to do this).
OR..
Continue with the type of splits you are doing without trying to sit up.Eventually,when you manage to get all the way down into a "road kill" split(inner thighs,abs,chest touching the floor) you can then work on "rotating" your entire body(not just your upper body) into an upright position.

When you are upright you should be in a toes pointing up side split.

Dragon.

[uss2048]

If we start stretching with our feet facing forward, we should start with our hip, say 15 degrees rotated forward, and end with 25 degrees rotated forward in a full split position. My experience told me that by rotating our hip too much forward will not help us to stretch the corresponding muscles further; in fact, it will prevent us to achieve a full split. Do you agree?

Only when we have mastered the side split, we can rotate our hip until the abdomen is flat horizontal to the floor or try to rotate our feet towards the top or try to go from full side split to full front leg split and vice versa. Do you agree?

Administrator or other forum members, please feel free to answer to the above questions.


P.S. I tried both ways recently (rotating the hip to the right degree and too much forward), and found that the difference of the stretch down I reached could be as much as 3 inches.


Uss2048
Hong Kong

[dragon]

If we start stretching with our feet facing forward, we should start with our hip, say 15 degrees rotated forward, and end with 25 degrees rotated forward in a full split position. My experience told me that by rotating our hip too much forward will not help us to stretch the corresponding muscles further; in fact, it will prevent us to achieve a full split. Do you agree?

Rotation of the hips is needed to prevent the femur jamming into the pelvis.I've always had an "instinctive" feeling for how much pelvis tilt is enough.If you mean rotating your hips too far forward whilst trying to remain in an upright position,then yes,i can understand how that would cause dicomfort(particularly to the lower back as the arch would be greater than normal).

Only when we have mastered the side split, we can rotate our hip until the abdomen is flat horizontal to the floor or try to rotate our feet towards the top or try to go from full side split to full front leg split and vice versa. Do you agree?

Not sure i understand this fully but i'll give an explanation based on what i think you're saying:-
1-I don't think you have to master the side split before you can perform the roadkill split(abdomen flat to the floor).Both of these actions can be achieved together.

2-I assume that rotating the feet towards the top means the toes up side split?Again,i think that the feet forwards side split and toes up side split can be achieved equally the same.This is down to preference of position.You don't have to achieve one before you can achieve the other.

3-If you mean rotating your body from left front split to right front split(so there would be a side split in between) then yes,you would require a good degree of side split.Even then though you will still have to raise your hips slightly to avoid the femur jamming scenario.


Dragon.

[uss2048]

Dragon,

Thanks for your reply first. There are some misunderstandings of the points in my first post.

1) When can we do the roadkill split(abdomen flat to the floor)? What I said is that IMHO, we can rotate our hip further until we rest on our abdomen after we have reached the full side split position, but not before. The restraint is due to the hip joint alignment. Do you concur?

2) Can we or should we start the side split stretch with feet up or feet forword? What I mean for people who do not start with good strength and flexibility of the related muscles, joint shape, and start such stretching well in their adult years, stretching with feet forward will be easier to succeed. We can lever our body weight to stretch in such case.

3) Yes. Switching between the full side split position and full front split position is unlikely possible if one has only a fair degree of side split ability. Say, when one has just achieved the full side split for only a month.



uss2048
Hong Kong

[dragon]

1) When can we do the roadkill split(abdomen flat to the floor)? What I said is that IMHO, we can rotate our hip further until we rest on our abdomen after we have reached the full side split position, but not before. The restraint is due to the hip joint alignment. Do you concur?

There are 2 ways of performing a side split:-
Feet forwards-this requires you to tilt your pelvis to prevent the femur jamming into the pelvis.
Toes up-this requires you to rotate your feet/legs outwards instead of the hips instead.
My definition of roadkill split is sitting on the floor,open legs as wide as possible and lean forwards until the abdomen/chest is on the floor(hence the name,flatter than roadkill).
When you can get your legs to virtually 180 degrees you will basically be in a toes up split,so the hip rotation involved in this type of split is minimal.
I know people who can get their abdomen to the floor whilst they are unable to perform a full split.

2) Can we or should we start the side split stretch with feet up or feet forword? What I mean for people who do not start with good strength and flexibility of the related muscles, joint shape, and start such stretching well in their adult years, stretching with feet forward will be easier to succeed. We can lever our body weight to stretch in such case.

I'd say it's easier for most people to start with feet forward due to the balance issue.Most people with average flexibility may find themselves falling forwards or backwards if trying to attempt a toes up split from a high starting point.

Dragon.

[DanBor]

I heard its better to perform side split with feet pointing forward than feet pointing up, 'cause in feet pointing up you also stretch knee tendons.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[mat]

I heard its better to perform side split with feet pointing forward than feet pointing up, 'cause in feet pointing up you also stretch knee tendons.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I actually found the opposite - that doing the split with feet pointing forwards was harder on the knees than with feet pointing up. I still practise both ways though.

Mat

[DanBor]

I practice both ways also but I actualy feel the stretch under the knees in toes up, then I "transform" it to toes forward split and it feels good but its necessary to keep legs completely straight.